Is there sexism in comics?

afroloq · Post by **afroloq** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:38 pm

Ok...I am just kicking this idea around and actually considering doing a show on this topic (Hint: If you would like to participate, e mail me...lol).

*Don't mind me but I am trying to find a good way to approach this...*

I was listening to a discussion at my comic shop the other week and the discussion centered around how Storm, altho she is probably one of the most powerful X men (matter of opinion, I know!) it seems like writers have a difficult time writing her and that the best time that she was really fleshed out when she lead the X men.

That got a few wheels turning and one of the first things I thought about was how Halle Berry butchered Storm in the X men movies and actually kind of made up for it in the 3rd one.

I then thought about a few other things....

1. How many times has Wonder Woman been rebooted by DC? What about her cultural impact? Was it a good idea to have a heroine to not only be physically equal to men but in some cases be superior in body and mind? Can men adapt to that? Furthermore, altho there was a popular TV show back in the 70's, how does a movie (that will make or break DC comics franchises in Hollywood) get done to go over well with both sexes?

2. How many comics featuring a female lead are there and how do they stack up to some of the more popular men?

Let's take a quick peek at August 2008 figures and let me name some male solo comics and where they were....

Batman, Hulk, Wolverine and Spider-man
were in the top 10....

In the top 25...add Captain America and Thor to the list with Buffy being the only female character ( just think she hasn't been around as long some of the others creation wise!!) at number 13.

The next female solo or group doesn't pop up until She Hulk number 62, Wonder Woman at 65 and they are preceded by a number of male characters before that....after them you have: Supergirl at 88, Batgirl at 91

(Note also that Superman and Action Comics were in the 40s!)

Birds of prey doesn't crack the list until 107 and even then from what this looks like it's up from 127 (If I am incorrect please feel free to tell me so!)

I could go on and on about the sales figures BUT...I think the bigger question is...why isn't there any female comic chraracters that can hang with the big boys?

Are they not drawn anatomically (in)correct enough? LOL
Is it that writers have a difficult time fleshing out a female character enough to make a very good book?

Are males more likely to buy a male dominated book and if there are women they can be in it as long as they 'share the lead' with the male or play 2nd fiddle?

Case in point to this last question: Black Panther has been enjoying a resurgance in its title as of late and part of that has to do with Storm being in that book and the way some of his stories have been written makes Storm someone who is on equal footing with Black Panther but still Black Panther is the star (BTW that title was 72 on the list last month).

She is getting more story time because she doesn't have a gaggle of X men around her yet and still I feel she is kind of wasted.

Whatever the case may be it still may just boil down to the fact that since comics are mostly catered to men, we just won't buy it....I think I will have to find a nice super heroine book and put it on my pull list... any suggestions?

What do you think it would take to push a superheroine to the top 10 status or will it never happen?

I do realize that one month is probably not a lot to go on as it would porbbaly take a while to compare figures for years and years of comics however, I do think it says something when characters like She Hulk who has been around just over 20 some years still has a hard time being defined...again, thank you for reading!!

Well...I will end my rant right here, but if you disagree with this, then hey I don't mind hearing your side of it....I am just curious as to how a lof of people feel about this subject. I just thought it would make for good discussion

Link to the sales figures...

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=18289

BobBretall · Post by **BobBretall** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:04 pm

I could be wrong here, but:

* I'm guessing (by sheer %) the number of females who read/enjoy Super-Hero comics is WAY lower than the number of males.

* I suspect that males read more male-centric books for "identifying with the lead" purposes
- The exception to the above rule would draw males to anatomically incorrect female books for hormone-driven reasons.

* Females (not exclusively, but for the large part) prefer more story-driven comics. These are found more in the non-mainstream Marvel/DC worlds which (in general) have much lower sales.

SOME QUESTIONS TO CONSIDER:
* How do you get MORE female readership
- Things like the Minx line do not seem to have worked

* What kinds of books would be able to capture/hold large female readership?
- I suspect they would not be super-hero books (at least not traditional power-fantasy ones).

BobBretall · Post by **BobBretall** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:06 pm

PS: Anyone reading this, if you are female, chime in....

If you KNOW a female who reads comics, I'd love to hear her opinions on this.

afroloq · Post by **afroloq** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:30 am

I receievd an 'interesting' reply on my boards on this topic.

You know what is really sad is that with all the hubris and venom that was directed at my post 2 things occured.

1 A whole BUNCH of grammatical errors

2. The person in question said that they didn't finish reading....

niiiiiice.

Beofre taking off 1/2 cocked, know the whole story or else you are screwed.

Terry · Post by **Terry** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:03 pm

You know there is a new miniseries starring Storm right? The first issue came out yesterday and I hear its good, but I haven't read my copy yet.

I was thinking about checking out those Black Panther issues with Storm, are they good?

I also like the way Jughead's longtime love intetest Ethel is being written in the Jughead book. She puts up with his &#$( a lot less than she used to.

BobBretall · Post by **BobBretall** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:55 am

Terry wrote: I was thinking about checking out those Black Panther issues with Storm, are they good?

Black Panther has been consistently pretty good on the current run.

As to Storm in the book, she is consistently portrayed as a very strong character (don't mess with her!), but she is definitely a secondary character in the book.

Terry · Post by **Terry** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:18 am

Thanks for the recommendation Bob, the first 32 issues of the current Black Panther volume are available on Marvel's digital service and I found some SI tie-ins on ebay for cheap. So I will check those out.

Storm is hot. She should go back to the mohawk though.

afroloq · Post by **afroloq** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:51 pm

Terry wrote:You know there is a new miniseries starring Storm right? The first issue came out yesterday and I hear its good, but I haven't read my copy yet.

I was thinking about checking out those Black Panther issues with Storm, are they good?

I also like the way Jughead's longtime love intetest Ethel is being written in the Jughead book. She puts up with his &#$( a lot less than she used to.

I just picked it up and I really liked it...unfortunately it hints that she may be going thru more changes.......sigh

IanG · Post by **IanG** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:54 am

I think I'll check out the trade on Black Panther as I've been hearing good things.

Looks like new Black Panther will now feature a female lead character, seem interesting. I might have to check that out when it comes out. I read about this new development over at Newsarama, The New Black Panther(ess)?.

HassanT · Post by **HassanT** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:07 am

JLAFan wrote:I could be wrong here, but:

* I'm guessing (by sheer %) the number of females who read/enjoy Super-Hero comics is WAY lower than the number of males.

* I suspect that males read more male-centric books for "identifying with the lead" purposes
- The exception to the above rule would draw males to anatomically incorrect female books for hormone-driven reasons.

* Females (not exclusively, but for the large part) prefer more story-driven comics. These are found more in the non-mainstream Marvel/DC worlds which (in general) have much lower sales.

SOME QUESTIONS TO CONSIDER:
* How do you get MORE female readership
- Things like the Minx line do not seem to have worked

* What kinds of books would be able to capture/hold large female readership?
- I suspect they would not be super-hero books (at least not traditional power-fantasy ones).

As a father of two daughters, I think about this when I buy books I read or books for them to read. I think Bob says it best that the reason that most of the selling books feature male characters is because majority of the readership is male.

That said, I think that there is sexism in comics. In terms of female characters that have their own books, I feel that they are written and DRAWN to get men to pick up the comic and not women. I could be wrong, but I feel Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, and Cyblade fall into that category. Then there is DC Comics, who probably have the strongest female leads and it shows by having long-running successful comics featuring female leads. The obvious choice is Wonder Woman, but also Birds of Prey and Catwoman. Catwoman was just canceled but she pretty much had a regular series since the mid-90s and probably will return sometime in the future with her own comic. I left Supergirl off the list because I felt that DC handled the character badly since the relaunch, but I feel that is changing as we speak with the new creative team.

I wouldn't mind give a woman those DC comics, I would mind to give them Ms. Marvel or Cyblade.

ctowner1 · Post by **ctowner1** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:30 pm

Interesting discussion. I think in answer to the overall question, of course there is going to be sexism in comics - both in the way the characters int he comics act and in the way the comics are marketed - simply because we live in a sexist society.

Beyond that, comics are marketed to the demographic that buys them. As that demographic is primarily male, you will see big chested woman with hourglass figures. Of course, its not like the male superheroes are flabby and out of shape - but there's certainly more cheesecake covers than beefcake covers.

Similarly, with respect to the content, you're more likely to see a team book lead by a man, or a man as the CEO of a company than a woman - b/c that's the way our society is structured. Comics, like any other medium, are a reflection of society. Sexist society, sexist comics.

And, as an aside, I've enjoyed Hudlin's Black Panther, as well. :^)

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