A fascinating look at how Marvel believes/interprets the direction of the comic book market, featuring David Gabriel and Axel Alonso.
Day 1 Part I - https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/371 ... mmit-day-1
Day 1 Part II - https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/371 ... mmit-day-1
Senior Vice President Sales and Marketing David Gabriel talks about sales changes - https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/371 ... rket-shift
ICV2's Coverage of the Marvel Retailer Summit
Moderator: JohnMayo
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victorvondoom
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Re: ICV2's Coverage of the Marvel Retailer Summit
It seems Marvel recognizes many issues they are facing but aren't really sure what to do. Interesting information and I hope they figure out some worthwhile resolutions.
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erickowabunga
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Re: ICV2's Coverage of the Marvel Retailer Summit
Between Newsarama, ICV2, Bleeding Cool, and others, it is clear that Marvel got an ear full. I am happy (as a retailer) that they invited in retailers to talk to them. I am, however, very discouraged by the response Marvel is giving to much of what they are hearing. Responding in a manner that makes it out to be the issue of the retailer, or worse yet, the reader is not acceptable.
I urge everyone to read into it as much as they can. I have not read all of the responses and feedback, but it has certainly started a ripple effect in the creator world. Most noticeably with Marvel's Axel Alonso asserting that art doesn't sell books.
Marvel needs to take a better introspective look, return to their roots, and become a creative engine like they were in the Bronze Age. No excuses and no passing blame.
I urge everyone to read into it as much as they can. I have not read all of the responses and feedback, but it has certainly started a ripple effect in the creator world. Most noticeably with Marvel's Axel Alonso asserting that art doesn't sell books.
Marvel needs to take a better introspective look, return to their roots, and become a creative engine like they were in the Bronze Age. No excuses and no passing blame.
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bralinator
- Special Reviewer
- Posts: 420
- Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:02 pm
Re: ICV2's Coverage of the Marvel Retailer Summit
Marvel is getting desperate because they are losing readers fast. The digital codes copy are coming back, with a bonus issue per book.
I submit that Marvel needs to:
– Fire Axel Alonso
– Fire most of the writers & artists
– Hire some better writers
– Hire some better artists (it isn't that "art doesn't sell books" - it's that all of their art looks alike.)
– Hire stronger editors
– Bring back their "legacy" Characters
– Stop forcing politics into the books, stories
Marvel's permissive attitude towards horrendous creator behavior on inserting their left-wing politics and stirring the pot on social media is hardly an appropriate business model. The fact is that, yes, Marvel does have a diversity problem. In that they have none in terms of diversity of thought. They are a pure social justice propaganda arm. It's not “diversity” killing their sales, it's obnoxious diversity. From the SJW propaganda awkwardly sledgehammered into the stories, often to the detriment of existing fan-favorite characters to the lack of diversity of thought among your creators. Have you seen the social media feeds of all of Marvel's writers? A nice summary is here
The market can only handle so much of the same content. This isn't rocket science and has little to do with “diversity”. If Toyota began making nothing but SUVs, they would see diminishing results for their full line. That doesn't mean people don't like SUVs, it means that they produced more than their market would buy. And how many books does Marvel need on the shelf?
Marvel's “diverse” content was a fair seller when it was a couple of titles. But a dozen is too many. Further, titles that had been appealing to their core audience were cut or modified to make room for their new strategy. Sure, poor writing and art and high price points also hurt. But you can't glut the market based on feedback from a small segment of your market that may or may not (likely not) be buying your titles in the first place. (i.e. #GiveCapABoyfriend). Simply, Marvel over-saturated their content to court an audience that wasn't there. No one complains that a D-level character like Moon Boy is now Moon Girl if the book is good. But Riri Williams can't be Iron Man. She can be a new character who is being mentored by Tony Stark. She can have whole arcs dedicated to her tales within the Iron Man book. But Iron Man is an A-level character that needs to be recognizable to new readers.
We don't need 5 Avengers books, 5 X-Men books, etc… Marvel has to realize that not every comic reader ONLY reads Marvel. But when they release an event title, and have every title cross over it's only pushing old readers away because they can't afford it. And creating a barrier to entry for new readers who just want an Avengers story. We don't need 72 titles
A little bit of preaching goes a long way. It's exhausting to be preached at constantly in the news, on television, on social media, in video games, in the newspaper, and finally in comic books, even when one agrees with the premises advocated. Sometimes we just want to see Ben Grimm say, “It's clobberin' time!” And smack around some villains. Books like Mosaic are just destined for failure with a $4.99 #1. Maybe people would have supported their books at $2.99 but at $3.99 and $4.99 and even new number ones at $5.99, they won't.
Finally, if you have an all-you-can-read service that costs the same as two monthly books and all people have to do is wait a few months, you're going to bleed month to month readers, especially when you're putting out $6-$10 books occasionally that I can read a few months later for essentially free. This seems obvious to me.
And don't get me started on their too-common deaths and events, of course.
/rant over
I submit that Marvel needs to:
– Fire Axel Alonso
– Fire most of the writers & artists
– Hire some better writers
– Hire some better artists (it isn't that "art doesn't sell books" - it's that all of their art looks alike.)
– Hire stronger editors
– Bring back their "legacy" Characters
– Stop forcing politics into the books, stories
Marvel's permissive attitude towards horrendous creator behavior on inserting their left-wing politics and stirring the pot on social media is hardly an appropriate business model. The fact is that, yes, Marvel does have a diversity problem. In that they have none in terms of diversity of thought. They are a pure social justice propaganda arm. It's not “diversity” killing their sales, it's obnoxious diversity. From the SJW propaganda awkwardly sledgehammered into the stories, often to the detriment of existing fan-favorite characters to the lack of diversity of thought among your creators. Have you seen the social media feeds of all of Marvel's writers? A nice summary is here
The market can only handle so much of the same content. This isn't rocket science and has little to do with “diversity”. If Toyota began making nothing but SUVs, they would see diminishing results for their full line. That doesn't mean people don't like SUVs, it means that they produced more than their market would buy. And how many books does Marvel need on the shelf?
Marvel's “diverse” content was a fair seller when it was a couple of titles. But a dozen is too many. Further, titles that had been appealing to their core audience were cut or modified to make room for their new strategy. Sure, poor writing and art and high price points also hurt. But you can't glut the market based on feedback from a small segment of your market that may or may not (likely not) be buying your titles in the first place. (i.e. #GiveCapABoyfriend). Simply, Marvel over-saturated their content to court an audience that wasn't there. No one complains that a D-level character like Moon Boy is now Moon Girl if the book is good. But Riri Williams can't be Iron Man. She can be a new character who is being mentored by Tony Stark. She can have whole arcs dedicated to her tales within the Iron Man book. But Iron Man is an A-level character that needs to be recognizable to new readers.
We don't need 5 Avengers books, 5 X-Men books, etc… Marvel has to realize that not every comic reader ONLY reads Marvel. But when they release an event title, and have every title cross over it's only pushing old readers away because they can't afford it. And creating a barrier to entry for new readers who just want an Avengers story. We don't need 72 titles
A little bit of preaching goes a long way. It's exhausting to be preached at constantly in the news, on television, on social media, in video games, in the newspaper, and finally in comic books, even when one agrees with the premises advocated. Sometimes we just want to see Ben Grimm say, “It's clobberin' time!” And smack around some villains. Books like Mosaic are just destined for failure with a $4.99 #1. Maybe people would have supported their books at $2.99 but at $3.99 and $4.99 and even new number ones at $5.99, they won't.
Finally, if you have an all-you-can-read service that costs the same as two monthly books and all people have to do is wait a few months, you're going to bleed month to month readers, especially when you're putting out $6-$10 books occasionally that I can read a few months later for essentially free. This seems obvious to me.
And don't get me started on their too-common deaths and events, of course.
/rant over
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MichaelCastle
- Contributor
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:31 pm
Re: ICV2's Coverage of the Marvel Retailer Summit
I do like that they announced no more events for at least 18 months after Secret Empire. I have went through so much event fatigue that I skipped Civil War II entirely and I did not preorder Secret Empire. I must be in the minority's though because Retailers and consumers eat them upcompsolut wrote:Between Newsarama, ICV2, Bleeding Cool, and others, it is clear that Marvel got an ear full. I am happy (as a retailer) that they invited in retailers to talk to them. I am, however, very discouraged by the response Marvel is giving to much of what they are hearing. Responding in a manner that makes it out to be the issue of the retailer, or worse yet, the reader is not acceptable.
I urge everyone to read into it as much as they can. I have not read all of the responses and feedback, but it has certainly started a ripple effect in the creator world. Most noticeably with Marvel's Axel Alonso asserting that art doesn't sell books.
Marvel needs to take a better introspective look, return to their roots, and become a creative engine like they were in the Bronze Age. No excuses and no passing blame.
-
erickowabunga
- Reviewer
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:20 pm
- Location: Oconomowoc, WI
- Contact:
Re: ICV2's Coverage of the Marvel Retailer Summit
Shameless plug, but James and I took some time to discuss some of the outcomes of the summit. As retailers we get to see and hear everything first-hand from the customer, so it was great that Marvel took the time to listen. But what they do coming out of is is more important.
Episode 21, at the top of the feed is our discussion:
http://kowabungacomics.com/podcast/
Episode 21, at the top of the feed is our discussion:
http://kowabungacomics.com/podcast/