So the other day I'm talking to an old friend of mine that has operated a comic shop for over 25 years. We got to talking about the state of the industry from the retailer viewpoint. He then starts complaining about how Marvel is killing him. Which confused me as the new Marvel NOW seems to be selling well. He told me yes, sales from Diamond to retailers are up. But from the store to the customers is a different story.(This would seem to mirror what John reminds people at the start of every Mayo Report. The Diamond numbers he gets can and are different than what retailers actually sell).
My friend went on to explain how double shipping is killing him. As we all know there is a final cut off order date for each book that retailers can change their orders to Diamond. But with double shipping the window for changing that order has now been cut in half. Therefore if a store orders X amount of Issue's #1's. They have little time to adjust their orders for 2 and 3 depending on the sales as issue 1 gets on the stands. And with Marvel launching so many new books right now, a lot of books are to some extent unknown quantities for ordering.
The result of all this is stores being stuck with a lot of extra copies of books while Marvel brags about increasing market share. It is an interesting perspective I hadn't considered before. Could the sales numbers from Marvel and DC for that matter from the last year be more an illusion then we realized? Marketing gimmicks to boost sales? Scary as it sounds this feels similar to the direction of the crash from the 90's. I'm not a sky is falling kind of guy. Just an observation.
Negative consequence of double shipping
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the1captain
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BobBretall
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Astute observations.
I was a little surprised to see that Iron Man #4 was shipping already. The title launched so recently.
I look at it the same as your retailer friend (with a twist). I order #1 on a lot of titles & don't pre-order #2 or any others until I read #1 and see if I like it. By the time I get #1, #5 or 6 is being solicited and the retailer had to do their orders on #2-4 without knowing if I want to get the title or not, so they are totally speculating on customer reaction.
You can't believe the publisher, to them every book is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
I was a little surprised to see that Iron Man #4 was shipping already. The title launched so recently.
I look at it the same as your retailer friend (with a twist). I order #1 on a lot of titles & don't pre-order #2 or any others until I read #1 and see if I like it. By the time I get #1, #5 or 6 is being solicited and the retailer had to do their orders on #2-4 without knowing if I want to get the title or not, so they are totally speculating on customer reaction.
You can't believe the publisher, to them every book is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
somewhat related on the opposite end of the spectrum
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/12/11/ ... like-saga/
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/12/11/ ... like-saga/
Re: Negative consequence of double shipping
I do not believe that the Final order Cutoff dates have been changed. What is happening is that the FOC for #2 of a title is before #1 is out and therefore the FOC process is useless to retailers for adjusting orders on #2.the1captain wrote:But with double shipping the window for changing that order has now been cut in half.
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the1captain
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Re: Negative consequence of double shipping
JohnMayo wrote:I do not believe that the Final order Cutoff dates have been changed. What is happening is that the FOC for #2 of a title is before #1 is out and therefore the FOC process is useless to retailers for adjusting orders on #2.the1captain wrote:But with double shipping the window for changing that order has now been cut in half.
You're right John. That's what I meant. But I'll give DC credit. When they launched the new 52 they mad the first 6 or so issues returnable so retailers could have time to see what sells and what doesn't.
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the1captain
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Interesting. I can see both sides on this one. Image for pushing the retailer to buy more. The retailer for wanting to see how a series sells. After all, Image is no DC or Marvel. Each image book is an independent book in and of itself. Much harder to predict possible sales for the retailer and therefore harder to order just the right amount.Trev wrote:somewhat related on the opposite end of the spectrum
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/12/11/ ... like-saga/
For titles like Saga that have over half a dozen issues out already, I can understand not doing second printings. (Even though that does sort of amount to scare tactics of get it now or not at all.) For the second and third issues of titles, they really ought to make it easier on retailers and do second printings if needed.
I think FOC cuts that to 1 month, doesn't it?boshuda wrote:Maybe nothing can be done but it seems like a great solution to this is to shorten lead times. Is it really necessary to solicit books three months before they're in retailers hands? That's probably as much as five or six months before they have any real data about how well a title is selling.
The FOC is usually three weeks before the item ships. Sometimes it depends on the printing/shipping time.Trev wrote:I think FOC cuts that to 1 month, doesn't it?boshuda wrote:Maybe nothing can be done but it seems like a great solution to this is to shorten lead times. Is it really necessary to solicit books three months before they're in retailers hands? That's probably as much as five or six months before they have any real data about how well a title is selling.
Given the FOC system, how much value is there in soliciting items two or three months in advance? For the bigger companies on the FOC it wouldn't really make a difference. For the smaller companies it could be a huge problem since they probably need that lead time to get things printing at a lower price. (Longer lead times usually cut the printing price down.)
I've been in favor of tightening up the solicitation cycle for a while. Already knowing what will be coming out in March 2013 does nobody any really good at the moment and serves to distract people for what came out this week and what is coming out between now and March.
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the1captain
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Remember when you knew nothing about a new book until you saw it on the spinner rack? I feel old. lolI've been in favor of tightening up the solicitation cycle for a while. Already knowing what will be coming out in March 2013 does nobody any really good at the moment and serves to distract people for what came out this week and what is coming out between now and March.
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Paul Nolan
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I find that both the Image press release and the story (even being antidotal) about how hard it is to order for a reseller with the double shipping, a sign of what I feel is the big problem in the industry. Risk in the comic book industry is all pushed in the wrong direction, toward the customer and the reseller and away from the producers and distributors. The whole risk equation is completely backwards and ridiculous and unique to the comic book industry among consumer products.
The risks in bringing a consumer product to the market should be squarely on the producer (publisher). For some reason the comic book publishers seem to think the risk on a new product should be completely absorbed farther down the distribution chain. This is a backwards way to think as a manufacture.
Distributors usually make their money by moving quantity, this is normally done by having sales reps getting their catalog into the hands of more retailers growing the number of resellers carrying the product or getting their current customers to carry a larger assortment of their products. I could be wrong, but it doesn’t seem to me Diamond does anything to sell more comics. Do they actively seek new customers to sell comic books (book stores, coffee shops, whatever)? Do they do anything to actively sell new books or publishers to the existing stores (besides just placing the solicit in the catalog)? It seems to me they simply get their catalogs to an ever-shrinking captive market of comic book stores and do not actually do anything to increase the distribution of comic books to new venues or increase the number of titles carried by the existing stores. At this point I can’t figure out exactly how Diamond is any different then a pick and pull warehousing service with an outrageously high fee.
All either the publishers or distributor seems to be interested in doing is pushing the risk onto the resellers, with no interest in actually increasing sales or the distribution of comic books on the whole. This has created an interesting phenomenon with resellers. Resellers get no help from the publisher or the distributor yet are asked to absorb a large portion of the risk with little to no interest in their success from above. Also is their any interest in rewarding the resellers that are successful? Is mere survival what resellers are fighting for? While the publisher and distributor take on little to no risk, they want all the rewards or at least a disproportionate amount when compared to the risk.
All of this has lead to resellers pushing that risk on to their customers, “pre-order or we won’t carry it” with the full support of the publishers. At this point the small number of comic book readers are being asked to absorb the risk for the entire industry. Cover prices continue to rise, story content per issue continues to diminish and resellers (and reader by extension) are now being threatened by the publishers. I don’t know what the plan is, but the current system is a mountain of bad business practices.
Do the publishers want to eliminate the resellers and sell direct to consumers? They are essentially doing this with digital comics. Is the plan to eliminate print comics except the collected form? All most every current single-issue comic is completely useless as a stand-alone story. Do they want to eliminate the comic reseller? If everything is a collected edition or OGN type story you can go strait to the book market, specialty comic resellers aren’t needed. Seems like an odd play since the print bookstore is also a dying entity. Is the plan to go all-digital? Kill off the print market by eliminating the resellers and have everything go strait to digital. I am guessing the margins would be a lot higher this way. You would have no printing cost and the percentage taken by Comixology is most likely smaller then the one taken by Diamond too. I have no idea what the future holds, but I would bet the heads of these large companies are smarter then we give them credit for. Why the comic market seems as broken as it currently does not make sense to me, but I’m sure there is a reason the publishers make the choices they make. As fans we may not like the answers to that question, but I'm willing to bet there is a reason.
The risks in bringing a consumer product to the market should be squarely on the producer (publisher). For some reason the comic book publishers seem to think the risk on a new product should be completely absorbed farther down the distribution chain. This is a backwards way to think as a manufacture.
Distributors usually make their money by moving quantity, this is normally done by having sales reps getting their catalog into the hands of more retailers growing the number of resellers carrying the product or getting their current customers to carry a larger assortment of their products. I could be wrong, but it doesn’t seem to me Diamond does anything to sell more comics. Do they actively seek new customers to sell comic books (book stores, coffee shops, whatever)? Do they do anything to actively sell new books or publishers to the existing stores (besides just placing the solicit in the catalog)? It seems to me they simply get their catalogs to an ever-shrinking captive market of comic book stores and do not actually do anything to increase the distribution of comic books to new venues or increase the number of titles carried by the existing stores. At this point I can’t figure out exactly how Diamond is any different then a pick and pull warehousing service with an outrageously high fee.
All either the publishers or distributor seems to be interested in doing is pushing the risk onto the resellers, with no interest in actually increasing sales or the distribution of comic books on the whole. This has created an interesting phenomenon with resellers. Resellers get no help from the publisher or the distributor yet are asked to absorb a large portion of the risk with little to no interest in their success from above. Also is their any interest in rewarding the resellers that are successful? Is mere survival what resellers are fighting for? While the publisher and distributor take on little to no risk, they want all the rewards or at least a disproportionate amount when compared to the risk.
All of this has lead to resellers pushing that risk on to their customers, “pre-order or we won’t carry it” with the full support of the publishers. At this point the small number of comic book readers are being asked to absorb the risk for the entire industry. Cover prices continue to rise, story content per issue continues to diminish and resellers (and reader by extension) are now being threatened by the publishers. I don’t know what the plan is, but the current system is a mountain of bad business practices.
Do the publishers want to eliminate the resellers and sell direct to consumers? They are essentially doing this with digital comics. Is the plan to eliminate print comics except the collected form? All most every current single-issue comic is completely useless as a stand-alone story. Do they want to eliminate the comic reseller? If everything is a collected edition or OGN type story you can go strait to the book market, specialty comic resellers aren’t needed. Seems like an odd play since the print bookstore is also a dying entity. Is the plan to go all-digital? Kill off the print market by eliminating the resellers and have everything go strait to digital. I am guessing the margins would be a lot higher this way. You would have no printing cost and the percentage taken by Comixology is most likely smaller then the one taken by Diamond too. I have no idea what the future holds, but I would bet the heads of these large companies are smarter then we give them credit for. Why the comic market seems as broken as it currently does not make sense to me, but I’m sure there is a reason the publishers make the choices they make. As fans we may not like the answers to that question, but I'm willing to bet there is a reason.
Well w/ series that double shipping & $3.99 there is no freaking way right now. Since Hickman's last FF & the other FF issues, I have bought zero Marvel titles only trying out Uncanny Avengers #1 because it had a low price through DCBS. In fact until March 2013, I will still be Marvel free. I am giving a 1st arc trial period for Cornell/Alan Davis Wolverine even at $3.99 it is the right blend of talented creators that truly are second to none.
Matthew
Matthew