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John Mayo and Bob Bretall discuss Teen Titans #55 by DC, Wolverine: First Class #3 by Marvel and Beyond #1 by Virgin Comics.

Time Codes:
00:00 Intro
00:36 General discussion
03:33 DC: TEEN TITANS #55
12:47 Marvel: WOLVERINE FIRST CLASS #3
19:58 Other: BEYOND #1 [VIRGIN COMICS]
27:48 BATMAN #677
35:28 Closing comments
41:43 Next Week Promo
41:53 Wrap up
42:23 End of episode.

Good episode guys. Lots of thoughts rolling around my head on this one...

1) Teen Titans #55-- I'm looking at Issue #59 right now so why the decision to do #55? I thought Weekly Comics Spotlight was supposed to be about books you guys got in your most recent shipment?

In any event, I agree that this book is back on the upswing. I too lost a bit of interest in it when Beechen was on the book but McKeever is getting it right IMHO. I think they're turning Ravager into a TOTAL badass and I dig that; although I can't imagine she'll stay a hero forever. All in all this is a book I'm really enjoying again, and credit to Eddie Barrows for his art, too.

2) Wolverine: First Class #3 -- It doesn't take much for me to read a Wolverine book so no surprise that I'm enjoying this title, too. That Wolverine and Kitty Pryde mini back in the 80s was a personal favorite of mine; and goes a long way to why Kitty has always been at the top of my mutant stack.

One thing I wanted to mention though...you both made a remark or two about how this is effectively a Marvel Adventures (all ages) book and that there aren't enough of them around.

I really don't know that I agree with the 2nd part of the statement. No one knows better than you guys how poorly the Marvel Adventures and Johnny DC books sell; which is a function of the direct market. I'm not sure the market could support more all ages books; much less the ones it currently publishes. And truth be told, if you sum up all the Marvel and DC all ages books; I would bet it dwarfs the monthly output of any other publisher's entire line, right?

• Marvel Adventures Avengers
• Marvel Adventures Spider-Man
• Marvel Adventures Fantastic Four
• Marvel Adventures Hulk
• Marvel Adventures Iron Man
• Marvel Adventures Super Heroes
• Wolverine: First Class
• X-Men: First Class
• Spider-man Loves Mary Jane
• The Franklin Richards books (by Chris Elliopolis)
• Justice League Unlimited
• Super Friends
• Teen Titans Go!
• Tiny Titans
• Legion of the Super Heroes in the 31st Century
• Looney Tunes
• Scooby Doo
• The Batman Strikes!
• Billy Batson and the Magic of Shazam!

By my count that's 19 books that Marvel and DC publish monthly that are 100% geared toward younger audiences. That's actually pretty good when you consider most people don't buy more than 15-20 books a month.

3) Beyond #1 -- For some reason the Virgin comics line never appeals to me and this was no exception. I didn't even notice it in the solicits and having just gone and looked it up online, I still don't think it's something I want to bother with. Virgin just doesn't do it for me.

Batman #677 -- Now this was fascinating to hear from you guys. As you may know, I have a long-standing belief that Grant Morrison is a better read when he's not screwing with a playground you have a particular affinity for. Case in point...I LOATHED Morrison when he was writing New X-men. It just wasn't MY X-MEN. Yet, many people think that was the best X-men writing in decades. Yet when I read stuff like Animal Man and Seven Soldiers I LOVE his stuff. Probably because I don't have as much of an attachment to DC history as I do Marvel. To hear you guys react to Batman R.I.P., I was reminded of my reaction to New X-Men.

For what it's worth, since I have no history with Batman, I LOVE the first two issues of R.I.P. For many of the same reasons you are apprehensive, I am excited. In my mind, it makes absolute sense that Martha might be a whore who did blow off some other girls (bleep) in the midst of a swinging orgy. Why? Because she was an uber wealthy socialite and I learned long ago that you can never tell what kinds of things go on in people's bedrooms. Whereas you look back on Martha and think Morrison is bastardizing Batman's history; I don't see it that way at all. Martha could genuinely have been a great philanthropist, a learned woman, a pillar of the community and a loving mother, while also partying like it was 1999 and being a freak in the sack. They are not mutually exclusive and I love that Morrison recognizes that base fact about humanity that so few writers acknowledge. People can be good and evil. They can be outwardly moral and internally corrupt. I would say more people are that way than not; and it makes sense that Martha and Mr. Wayne would have skeletons in their closets.

I'm along for the ride, but again it's important to note that I would have ZERO issue with totally re-writing Batman's history. I have no emotional anchor to the character. But to be fair, I want to punch Jeff Loeb in the face for suggesting that Wolverine is a mutated dog. It's all relative.

That's about it...keep up the great work.

Wood
[/list][/list]

Wood wrote: 1) Teen Titans #55-- I'm looking at Issue #59 right now so why the decision to do #55? I thought Weekly Comics Spotlight was supposed to be about books you guys got in your most recent shipment?

I believe that is a typo. It was TT #59 that we reviewed on the episode.

Wood wrote: One thing I wanted to mention though...you both made a remark or two about how this is effectively a Marvel Adventures (all ages) book and that there aren't enough of them around.

I don't recall making that exact statement, if I did I was wrong, there are quite a few books for younger readers (though they seem to have done a stealth cancellation on MA: Iron Man, #13 appears to have been the last issue solicited, an JL Unlimited was canceled as of #46, that issue has a "final issue" tag on it).

However, what there is a shortage of is "all ages" books that are accessible to both young & old readers. Marvel does a MUCH better job of this than DC, IMO. Wolverine is the best of the bunch, followed by some of the other Marvel Adventures books. I have high hopes for the Billy Batson book, but most of the other Johnny DC books are too rooted in their cartoon-show beginnings, and do not tend to hold my interest in reading them as well as the Marvel ones do. I think they are a bit more simplistic and targeted at kids in a way that makes them a bit more inaccessible to older readers (at least to THIS older reader).

Wood wrote:Good episode guys. Lots of thoughts rolling around my head on this one...

1) Teen Titans #55-- I'm looking at Issue #59 right now so why the decision to do #55? I thought Weekly Comics Spotlight was supposed to be about books you guys got in your most recent shipment?

I got the issue number wrong in the show notes. It was issue #59 that just came out that we were discussing. I've updated the show notes.

Wood wrote: In any event, I agree that this book is back on the upswing. I too lost a bit of interest in it when Beechen was on the book but McKeever is getting it right IMHO. I think they're turning Ravager into a TOTAL badass and I dig that; although I can't imagine she'll stay a hero forever. All in all this is a book I'm really enjoying again, and credit to Eddie Barrows for his art, too.

2) Wolverine: First Class #3 -- It doesn't take much for me to read a Wolverine book so no surprise that I'm enjoying this title, too. That Wolverine and Kitty Pryde mini back in the 80s was a personal favorite of mine; and goes a long way to why Kitty has always been at the top of my mutant stack.

One thing I wanted to mention though...you both made a remark or two about how this is effectively a Marvel Adventures (all ages) book and that there aren't enough of them around.

I really don't know that I agree with the 2nd part of the statement. No one knows better than you guys how poorly the Marvel Adventures and Johnny DC books sell; which is a function of the direct market. I'm not sure the market could support more all ages books; much less the ones it currently publishes. And truth be told, if you sum up all the Marvel and DC all ages books; I would bet it dwarfs the monthly output of any other publisher's entire line, right?

• Marvel Adventures Avengers
• Marvel Adventures Spider-Man
• Marvel Adventures Fantastic Four
• Marvel Adventures Hulk
• Marvel Adventures Iron Man
• Marvel Adventures Super Heroes
• Wolverine: First Class
• X-Men: First Class
• Spider-man Loves Mary Jane
• The Franklin Richards books (by Chris Elliopolis)
• Justice League Unlimited
• Super Friends
• Teen Titans Go!
• Tiny Titans
• Legion of the Super Heroes in the 31st Century
• Looney Tunes
• Scooby Doo
• The Batman Strikes!
• Billy Batson and the Magic of Shazam!

By my count that's 19 books that Marvel and DC publish monthly that are 100% geared toward younger audiences. That's actually pretty good when you consider most people don't buy more than 15-20 books a month.

Too many of those titles you list fall into the "for kids" category versus than the "all ages" category to me. Super Friends and Tiny Titans are aimed specifically at a younger audience at the expense of the older audience. To me, an "all ages" book is equally appropriate and enjoyable for all aged. It is a a subtle distinction but an important one. Personally, I think that all of the more mainstream comic books should be "all ages" titles and not enough of them are.

Wood wrote: 3) Beyond #1 -- For some reason the Virgin comics line never appeals to me and this was no exception. I didn't even notice it in the solicits and having just gone and looked it up online, I still don't think it's something I want to bother with. Virgin just doesn't do it for me.

Batman #677 -- Now this was fascinating to hear from you guys. As you may know, I have a long-standing belief that Grant Morrison is a better read when he's not screwing with a playground you have a particular affinity for. Case in point...I LOATHED Morrison when he was writing New X-men. It just wasn't MY X-MEN. Yet, many people think that was the best X-men writing in decades. Yet when I read stuff like Animal Man and Seven Soldiers I LOVE his stuff. Probably because I don't have as much of an attachment to DC history as I do Marvel. To hear you guys react to Batman R.I.P., I was reminded of my reaction to New X-Men.

His Animal Man work was great. I had mixed feelings on his New X-Men run. It was good but I'm not a big fan of the mutants that are just freaks versus having something resembling a useful power. But that is a personal preference.

Wood wrote: For what it's worth, since I have no history with Batman, I LOVE the first two issues of R.I.P. For many of the same reasons you are apprehensive, I am excited. In my mind, it makes absolute sense that Martha might be a whore who did blow off some other girls (bleep) in the midst of a swinging orgy. Why? Because she was an uber wealthy socialite and I learned long ago that you can never tell what kinds of things go on in people's bedrooms. Whereas you look back on Martha and think Morrison is bastardizing Batman's history; I don't see it that way at all. Martha could genuinely have been a great philanthropist, a learned woman, a pillar of the community and a loving mother, while also partying like it was 1999 and being a freak in the sack. They are not mutually exclusive and I love that Morrison recognizes that base fact about humanity that so few writers acknowledge. People can be good and evil. They can be outwardly moral and internally corrupt. I would say more people are that way than not; and it makes sense that Martha and Mr. Wayne would have skeletons in their closets.

You see, this is where Batman stops being an "all ages" comic to me. I'm not saying the Waynes have to be perfect people but this seemed excessive to me.

Wood wrote: I'm along for the ride, but again it's important to note that I would have ZERO issue with totally re-writing Batman's history. I have no emotional anchor to the character. But to be fair, I want to punch Jeff Loeb in the face for suggesting that Wolverine is a mutated dog. It's all relative.

I've been reading Batman for hundreds and hundreds of issues. It bugs me when they toss out or radically change huge parts of the backstory that I paid good money to read.

Wood wrote: That's about it...keep up the great work.

Wood

Thanks. I'm glad you enjoyed the episode.

Wood wrote: In my mind, it makes absolute sense that Martha might be a whore who did blow off some other girls (bleep) in the midst of a swinging orgy. Why? Because she was an uber wealthy socialite and I learned long ago that you can never tell what kinds of things go on in people's bedrooms. Whereas you look back on Martha and think Morrison is bastardizing Batman's history; I don't see it that way at all. Martha could genuinely have been a great philanthropist, a learned woman, a pillar of the community and a loving mother, while also partying like it was 1999 and being a freak in the sack. They are not mutually exclusive and I love that Morrison recognizes that base fact about humanity that so few writers acknowledge. People can be good and evil. They can be outwardly moral and internally corrupt. I would say more people are that way than not; and it makes sense that Martha and Mr. Wayne would have skeletons in their closets.

Fair enough. I really despise when a writer goes in and does "bad" things to pre-established characters they did not create. Kind of a disrespect to the original creators, but that's just a personal opinion.

Fine that it adds a "humanity", but turning Martha Wayne into Paris Hilton is not a positive leap forward for the Batman franchise. It's not something I need to see.

Wood wrote:

• Marvel Adventures Avengers
• Marvel Adventures Spider-Man
• Marvel Adventures Fantastic Four
• Marvel Adventures Hulk
• Marvel Adventures Iron Man
• Marvel Adventures Super Heroes
• Wolverine: First Class
• X-Men: First Class
• Spider-man Loves Mary Jane
• The Franklin Richards books (by Chris Elliopolis)
• Justice League Unlimited
• Super Friends
• Teen Titans Go!
• Tiny Titans
• Legion of the Super Heroes in the 31st Century
• Looney Tunes
• Scooby Doo
• The Batman Strikes!
• Billy Batson and the Magic of Shazam!

One interesting thing about that list is that none of them are part of the current mainstream continuity for DC or Marvel. The First Class titles are presumably set in the past of the current continuity for the Marvel Universe but even that isn't 100% certain.

I remember reading a Brand New Day issue... it had this character Freak. In this comic he does something to warp his body... and he looks disgusting. It was unsettling, but I pushed on. Then he pukes himself inside out, and he looks ten times worse. I remember thinking about a sort of inside out man I saw in the first trade of Fallen Angel. And one of the reasons I am sure it was intended for mature audiences.

I didn't think to check the rating, again I just move on, I have five or six of these issues I picked up from a bookstore, I hate to have to be done this early. So a handful of pages later Ox is about to punch a super villain bookie in the head for not giving money back. And the caption boxes say "Oops, we can't show Ox pummeling this guy. This is an all-ages comic, we better move on to the next scene." My jaw-dropped, I flipped back the few pages to the vomiting of one's insides to make his outsides...

I don't know if it was meant to be a joke, but I couldn't imagine anything else. I still haven't decided quite what to make of that, personally.

The "All Ages" distinction versus "for kids" makes a ton of sense; that explains where the disconnect was between what I heard you say and what you meant. To that end, I agree there aren't enough books accessible to both young and old audiences.

As to Teen Titans, oddly enough I read the last five issues of that tonight before logging back on and discovered for myself that you actually reviewed #59.

As to your question about Ravager and her ability to see into the future, I can only surmise that she's going to turn out to actually be Clock King's daughter (hence she inherited his meta power) and somehow we're going to see that revealed. That will really open the door wide open for how her relationship and identification with Deathstroke goes from here.

Wood wrote: As to your question about Ravager and her ability to see into the future, I can only surmise that she's going to turn out to actually be Clock King's daughter (hence she inherited his meta power) and somehow we're going to see that revealed. That will really open the door wide open for how her relationship and identification with Deathstroke goes from here.

It was Clock King that could see a few seconds into the future that was introduced in that issue. Ravager has had a similar power for a number of years. I think that it was explained at some point that Deathstroke has a similar (but not as powerful) ability which Ravager inherited.

johnmayo wrote:

Wood wrote: As to your question about Ravager and her ability to see into the future, I can only surmise that she's going to turn out to actually be Clock King's daughter (hence she inherited his meta power) and somehow we're going to see that revealed. That will really open the door wide open for how her relationship and identification with Deathstroke goes from here.

It was Clock King that could see a few seconds into the future that was introduced in that issue. Ravager has had a similar power for a number of years. I think that it was explained at some point that Deathstroke has a similar (but not as powerful) ability which Ravager inherited.

Ah! So I'm confused; but still intrigued. So maybe Clock King is another offspring?

Wood wrote:

johnmayo wrote:

Wood wrote: As to your question about Ravager and her ability to see into the future, I can only surmise that she's going to turn out to actually be Clock King's daughter (hence she inherited his meta power) and somehow we're going to see that revealed. That will really open the door wide open for how her relationship and identification with Deathstroke goes from here.

It was Clock King that could see a few seconds into the future that was introduced in that issue. Ravager has had a similar power for a number of years. I think that it was explained at some point that Deathstroke has a similar (but not as powerful) ability which Ravager inherited.

Ah! So I'm confused; but still intrigued. So maybe Clock King is another offspring?

Possible but unlikely. I think he is too old to be one of Deathstroke's kids. I thinkt hey just felt the need to give the guy some powers to make him more than a guy that really liked clocks.

johnmayo wrote:

Wood wrote:

johnmayo wrote: It was Clock King that could see a few seconds into the future that was introduced in that issue. Ravager has had a similar power for a number of years. I think that it was explained at some point that Deathstroke has a similar (but not as powerful) ability which Ravager inherited.

Ah! So I'm confused; but still intrigued. So maybe Clock King is another offspring?

Possible but unlikely. I think he is too old to be one of Deathstroke's kids. I thinkt hey just felt the need to give the guy some powers to make him more than a guy that really liked clocks.

You don't find it odd that the issues spent so much time focusing on Rose's ability to use her precognition and then the big "reveal" is that Clock King has them, too. Plus in Issue 57 or 58 (can't remember which), the King is watching tape of the attack on the Tower and makes a comment about "hold on, I THOUGHT I saw something"...I took that to mean he was figuring out that Rose has precognition, too.

Dunno, either way it's been a fun romp.

Wood wrote:

johnmayo wrote:

Wood wrote: Ah! So I'm confused; but still intrigued. So maybe Clock King is another offspring?

Possible but unlikely. I think he is too old to be one of Deathstroke's kids. I thinkt hey just felt the need to give the guy some powers to make him more than a guy that really liked clocks.

You don't find it odd that the issues spent so much time focusing on Rose's ability to use her precognition and then the big "reveal" is that Clock King has them, too. Plus in Issue 57 or 58 (can't remember which), the King is watching tape of the attack on the Tower and makes a comment about "hold on, I THOUGHT I saw something"...I took that to mean he was figuring out that Rose has precognition, too.

Dunno, either way it's been a fun romp.

Fair enough. There is certainly grounds to think that they are going some place with that. But I suspect it is more towards a fight between the two precogs than to reveal they are somehow related. And, personally, I'd really like to see a fight between the two precogs. With Ravager being the winner since she is both a better fighter and she can see further out into the future than Clock King.

johnmayo wrote:

Wood wrote:

johnmayo wrote: Possible but unlikely. I think he is too old to be one of Deathstroke's kids. I thinkt hey just felt the need to give the guy some powers to make him more than a guy that really liked clocks.

You don't find it odd that the issues spent so much time focusing on Rose's ability to use her precognition and then the big "reveal" is that Clock King has them, too. Plus in Issue 57 or 58 (can't remember which), the King is watching tape of the attack on the Tower and makes a comment about "hold on, I THOUGHT I saw something"...I took that to mean he was figuring out that Rose has precognition, too.

Dunno, either way it's been a fun romp.

Fair enough. There is certainly grounds to think that they are going some place with that. But I suspect it is more towards a fight between the two precogs than to reveal they are somehow related. And, personally, I'd really like to see a fight between the two precogs. With Ravager being the winner since she is both a better fighter and she can see further out into the future than Clock King.

I was going to ask you that John, do we know how far in the future Rose can see? Because we know Clock King said something about 5.xxx seconds, right? So presumably that's going to be a factor when they battle. Should be fun stuff.