Mayo Report

[drew]

About a year ago I went through all of my long boxes and sold the comics that I didn't care about anymore and decided that I didn't want to struggle with the storage issues that collecting comics causes, so I switched to almost exclusively digital (I still keep the physical copies of my 3 favorite series).

i get it - I am going through this purge right now, thinning out all my paper comics - it was difficult for me to overrule the decades-long comic collector in me - cuz these will be worth millions some day but it had to be done

[JohnMayo]

I just finished listening to your comics Mayo report episode and just wanted to congratulate you John on ten years of talking about numbers. That's a huge accomplishment.

Thanks. It was a huge amount of work. It totals to over 309 hours of content across the 250 episodes. Plus there is all of the number crunching to prepare for each of those episodes. There are fun to do but involve a bit or work. Obviously I couldn't do the episodes as well with out great cohosts. So thanks Sam and TJ for the insights on the episodes and, of course, to Chris Marshall, who was instrumental in the evolution of the Mayo Report episodes over the years.

You were also talking about DC and Marvel and the digital codes that they were and are putting in their issues. I don't think I'm a typical collector in this way but the digital codes in the Marvel comics are the only thing that are keeping me buying physical copies right now. About a year ago I went through all of my long boxes and sold the comics that I didn't care about anymore and decided that I didn't want to struggle with the storage issues that collecting comics causes, so I switched to almost exclusively digital (I still keep the physical copies of my 3 favorite series). Because of discounts on the physical issues it was cheaper to buy the physical Marvel copy and redeem the code and trade the issue in at a used book store I have nearby. So I get the digital copy I want and still get to look through the physical copy. Since DC stopped offering digital code editions when Convergence started I buy the digital copy only (and usually wait until the price drops to $1.99 or lower). DC said they dropped the digital copy because they polled comic shop owners and the feedback they got was that the owners didn't want comics with codes in them. My question is, am I an outlier when it comes to comic collecting or does DC not including a digital code affect their sales in a way that maybe they didn't consider (specifically the ones through Diamond that you guys talk about). It seems like the comic shop owners might have been a little shortsighted in their poll response, at least in my case.

I think you are an outlier at the moment but over time, more and more people will probably make that transition. The storage space for comics gets to literally be a bigger and bigger problem as you accumulate more comics. Shifting to digital is a great solution for comic book readers but not so much for comic book collectors. Personally, I like the physical copy but I ether need to rework how I store my comics or I might start to run out of space in the not too distant future.

I think retailers made the right choice for them when they told DC to stop with the digital codes. The major risk with digital is if it takes over as the primary reading channel before it takes over as the primary revenue channel. Right now, we need a strong direct market of comic book retailers because that is what funds the majority of new content creation.

While the decision may seem (and be) short-sighted from a reader perspective, the retailers need to protect their business and I support that. But the writing is on the virtual wall and future thinking retailers should be figuring out how they will exist as the hobby goes more and more digital in the coming years.

[clobberin_time_bs]

About a year ago I went through all of my long boxes and sold the comics that I didn't care about anymore and decided that I didn't want to struggle with the storage issues that collecting comics causes, so I switched to almost exclusively digital (I still keep the physical copies of my 3 favorite series).

i get it - I am going through this purge right now, thinning out all my paper comics - it was difficult for me to overrule the decades-long comic collector in me - cuz these will be worth millions some day but it had to be done

On the bright side it does give you extra money to kick start your new digital collection

[clobberin_time_bs]

I just finished listening to your comics Mayo report episode and just wanted to congratulate you John on ten years of talking about numbers. That's a huge accomplishment.

Thanks. It was a huge amount of work. It totals to over 309 hours of content across the 250 episodes. Plus there is all of the number crunching to prepare for each of those episodes. There are fun to do but involve a bit or work. Obviously I couldn't do the episodes as well with out great cohosts. So thanks Sam and TJ for the insights on the episodes and, of course, to Chris Marshall, who was instrumental in the evolution of the Mayo Report episodes over the years.

You were also talking about DC and Marvel and the digital codes that they were and are putting in their issues. I don't think I'm a typical collector in this way but the digital codes in the Marvel comics are the only thing that are keeping me buying physical copies right now. About a year ago I went through all of my long boxes and sold the comics that I didn't care about anymore and decided that I didn't want to struggle with the storage issues that collecting comics causes, so I switched to almost exclusively digital (I still keep the physical copies of my 3 favorite series). Because of discounts on the physical issues it was cheaper to buy the physical Marvel copy and redeem the code and trade the issue in at a used book store I have nearby. So I get the digital copy I want and still get to look through the physical copy. Since DC stopped offering digital code editions when Convergence started I buy the digital copy only (and usually wait until the price drops to $1.99 or lower). DC said they dropped the digital copy because they polled comic shop owners and the feedback they got was that the owners didn't want comics with codes in them. My question is, am I an outlier when it comes to comic collecting or does DC not including a digital code affect their sales in a way that maybe they didn't consider (specifically the ones through Diamond that you guys talk about). It seems like the comic shop owners might have been a little shortsighted in their poll response, at least in my case.

I think you are an outlier at the moment but over time, more and more people will probably make that transition. The storage space for comics gets to literally be a bigger and bigger problem as you accumulate more comics. Shifting to digital is a great solution for comic book readers but not so much for comic book collectors. Personally, I like the physical copy but I ether need to rework how I store my comics or I might start to run out of space in the not too distant future.

I think retailers made the right choice for them when they told DC to stop with the digital codes. The major risk with digital is if it takes over as the primary reading channel before it takes over as the primary revenue channel. Right now, we need a strong direct market of comic book retailers because that is what funds the majority of new content creation.

While the decision may seem (and be) short-sighted from a reader perspective, the retailers need to protect their business and I support that. But the writing is on the virtual wall and future thinking retailers should be figuring out how they will exist as the hobby goes more and more digital in the coming years.

Yeah, I probably am an outlier but my only point was I'm a digital reader who still buys physical copies of Marvel but of none of the others. The numbers probably are a wash in total but if more people start converting to digital the code may help Marvel's Diamond numbers.

And just some more anecdotal evidence of digital growth, the woman who writes She Has No Head over on CBR ( Kelly Thompson I think) did an unofficial poll of her readers a few months back and overwhelmingly they were digital only readers.

[Perseus]

John, I think it was you and TJ that talked about comic creators skipping the issues altogether and going straight to trade.

I'm not sure if it was the trades show or the comics show you talked about it.

It reminded me that Otis Frampton who does Oddly Normal at Image is doing just that. I want to read that book, and there are two trades out that comprise all of the individual issues.

But due to low sales I think, he wants to go straight to trade for the next release of his content. Thought it was interesting that he is going that route but makes sense to me.

[drew]

John, I think it was you and TJ that talked about comic creators skipping the issues altogether and going straight to trade.

I'm not sure if it was the trades show or the comics show you talked about it.

It reminded me that Otis Frampton who does Oddly Normal at Image is doing just that. I want to read that book, and there are two trades out that comprise all of the individual issues.

But due to low sales I think, he wants to go straight to trade for the next release of his content. Thought it was interesting that he is going that route but makes sense to me.

so at that point its just an OGN and he is betting an awful lot on his solicitation writing hooking buyers; unless he is releasing digital singles?

[doctormo]

After listening to the last Mayo Report on Comics, I came across Diamond Gem Awards' list for 2015; the awards are voted on by retailers. Rick & Morty #1 was awarded licensed comic of the year. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-v ... ook-852322

[NiklasJ]

Finally listened, interesting as always!
My mistake I was convinced Batman was below 100k in the beginning of the new Batman-arc but checked back to the summer, how wrong I was... some months it got closer but steady sales at 100k+

I dont remember if you point it out much during the episode but you cant just exclude all Marvel #1-3 and say they dont have anything other than Starwars and Spiderman that sells, some of the others have a high chance of keeping their numbers. Compared to the DC You thats on the "so much higher" #6 and not selling very stellar numbers (around 10k-20k).

"Broken record warning":
I still say this #1 reset was more Marvels way of resetting their issue numbers like the Nu52 did for DC, rather than a marketing scam to sell more variants. Its part of the Secret Wars story that the universe is destroyed and we have something new, different and very much the same going forward. Call it jumping on/off point if you will, I'm sure the marketing department liked the idea too, but since most titles just keep going I don't see the big deal, if you bought and liked the latest volume of thor or silk or spidergwen you probably return to this new one.

It´ll be interesting to see how 2015 sales compare to 2014 if DC is really performing as bad as it looks or if their drop in % is more a factor of Marvel getting more sales.

You talk about the fact that Marvel pushes out a lot of #1s, crowding the shelves and getting high sales from those, but DC publishes more titles than Marvel each/most(?) months, the difference being people actually buy a few of Marvels smaller books.

I understand your worry for the long term comic market but its a bit iffy to always hang the buts or ifs on Marvels higher sales (if they didn't have the StarWars-books, if they didn't renumber all the time, but this issue had so and so many variants). The bottom-line is that marvel for different reasons sell more comic books. As long as that is a fact they don't have incentive to do something wildly different.

Ask instead why doesn't DC do something to correct this, surely they could also do a big licensed line, or smaller interesting books (like the vertigo of old, haven't sampled the latest). Or try to push something new that isn't batman or superman, take for example Marvels very obvious Inhuman push, if nothing else they really try to make them matter in the marvel universe with some high profile creators and several books in different tastes. It might not always work but its better than not trying at all.

Also if DC could keep more of their creators they wouldn't look so shaky...

[JohnMayo]

You talk about the fact that Marvel pushes out a lot of #1s, crowding the shelves and getting high sales from those, but DC publishes more titles than Marvel each/most(?) months, the difference being people actually buy a few of Marvels smaller books.

I'd have to double check this but I do not think you are correct on this. There are a lot more comics being published as part of the Marvel Universe than as part of the DC Universe. Marvel is publishing a lot of titles and many of them at a faster than monthly schedule.

I understand your worry for the long term comic market but its a bit iffy to always hang the buts or ifs on Marvels higher sales (if they didn't have the StarWars-books, if they didn't renumber all the time, but this issue had so and so many variants). The bottom-line is that marvel for different reasons sell more comic books. As long as that is a fact they don't have incentive to do something wildly different.

I'm not sure I agree with you on this. There are many things which obscure how long term properties or groups of properties are doing. Star Wars is a licensed property and does not reflect the strength of the Marvel properties. By including Star Wars in year to year comparisons, it hides how the Marvel titles did over that time. Star Wars is a large percentage of the Marvel comic book sales, sometimes as much as 20% or so. The record breaking sales Marvel has had in some recent months reflects the addition of new properties to publish, not a new strength of their existing material.

Renumbering is a gimmick which isn't as effective as most people think. Normally, within a few issues the new volume is selling back around how the previous volume sold. I think that is worth pointing that. Given the massive amount of first issues we've had from Marvel over the past year, it is a large, ongoing topic of discussion.

Variants need to be excluded to understand how at risk the market is should another speculator crash happen. If the market for variants disappears like it did in the 1990s, the sales look very different. with over a hundred variant covers being offered by Marvel alone in a given month, this is a major topic worth discussing.

Will Marvel changing their ways? Probably not. But that doesn't mean it isn't worth discussing. I have reason to believe that these podcast episodes are listened to by people at Marvel, DC, Diamond and other places in the industry. While the odds of me convincing them to change their profitable but unhealthy way is low, I'm going to keep trying to do so.

To me, the goal shouldn't be for the publishers to make money any way they can but for them to do it in as sustainable a manner as possible. Licensed properties, renumbering and variant issues don't increase the strength of the core Marvel properties.

Ask instead why doesn't DC do something to correct this, surely they could also do a big licensed line, or smaller interesting books (like the vertigo of old, haven't sampled the latest). Or try to push something new that isn't batman or superman, take for example Marvels very obvious Inhuman push, if nothing else they really try to make them matter in the marvel universe with some high profile creators and several books in different tastes. It might not always work but its better than not trying at all.

We've discussed a number of times the problems at DC and how they could correct them. They publish Batman related titles because they sell. We've praised them for taking risks even when the odds of some of those titles working was low. In the past, I've suggested a few things like a weekly title featuring second tier Justice Leaguers, which we later saw things similar to. Whether or not those things happened because I mentioned the ideas on the podcast or not, I don't know. But we've spent plenty of time over the past decade of doing these episodes questioning what DC is doing and trying to make helpful recommendations.

[NiklasJ]

NiklasJ wrote:
You talk about the fact that Marvel pushes out a lot of #1s, crowding the shelves and getting high sales from those, but DC publishes more titles than Marvel each/most(?) months, the difference being people actually buy a few of Marvels smaller books.


I'd have to double check this but I do not think you are correct on this. There are a lot more comics being published as part of the Marvel Universe than as part of the DC Universe. Marvel is publishing a lot of titles and many of them at a faster than monthly schedule.

I was looking at the top comic books breakdown for the two last months, New Item column, Nov has 70 Marvel and 78 DC, Oct has 68 Marvel and 76 DC. But you are right , further back Marvel has a few more, in any case marvel is not pushing out significantly more new items than DC or am I interpreting this wrong?

There are many things which obscure how long term properties or groups of properties are doing. Star Wars is a licensed property and does not reflect the strength of the Marvel properties. By including Star Wars in year to year comparisons, it hides how the Marvel titles did over that time. Star Wars is a large percentage of the Marvel comic book sales, sometimes as much as 20% or so. The record breaking sales Marvel has had in some recent months reflects the addition of new properties to publish, not a new strength of their existing material.

Its probably my fault for being unprecise in my post... Im not discounting the fact that starwars adds something to the numbers that isnt an inherent marvel property, or that #1s and variants sell more. I just want to point out that there can also be other more content related reasons that Marvel has significantly more titles in the top 50 than DC.

I only checked quickly in the mayo report top 300 2014 and 2013, it seems Marvel has been 2M above DC in (top 300 comic) sales both those years and this year is looking slightly better because of the StarWars right? so thats 2-3 years of this development, thats at least a slightly long term for a business company. A longer term of 10 years of more in the future might not make much sense since the industry changes very quickly back and forth.

I mention in my earlier post I wonder how the numbers compare to last year since I dont think (I also think you talk about this in some of the report pods) that DC does not necessarily sell much worse than earlier years but Marvel with the addition of starwars sell more.

Either way you turn it the StarWars licence is part of the Marvel printing group now and adds strength to their comic sales. When Dark Horse had the license I cant imagine their numbers were being critizised for being bloated?

[JohnMayo]

I was looking at the top comic books breakdown for the two last months, New Item column, Nov has 70 Marvel and 78 DC, Oct has 68 Marvel and 76 DC. But you are right , further back Marvel has a few more, in any case marvel is not pushing out significantly more new items than DC or am I interpreting this wrong?

I know the mainstream Marvel Universe has more comics and I think more titles than the mainstream DC universe. Based on my buying, I'm all in on both and getting a lot more Marvel than DC. As for across the entire publishing line, I'd have to check my database to be sure.

Its probably my fault for being unprecise in my post... Im not discounting the fact that starwars adds something to the numbers that isnt an inherent marvel property, or that #1s and variants sell more. I just want to point out that there can also be other more content related reasons that Marvel has significantly more titles in the top 50 than DC.

I only checked quickly in the mayo report top 300 2014 and 2013, it seems Marvel has been 2M above DC in (top 300 comic) sales both those years and this year is looking slightly better because of the StarWars right? so thats 2-3 years of this development, thats at least a slightly long term for a business company. A longer term of 10 years of more in the future might not make much sense since the industry changes very quickly back and forth.

I mention in my earlier post I wonder how the numbers compare to last year since I dont think (I also think you talk about this in some of the report pods) that DC does not necessarily sell much worse than earlier years but Marvel with the addition of starwars sell more.

Either way you turn it the StarWars licence is part of the Marvel printing group now and adds strength to their comic sales. When Dark Horse had the license I cant imagine their numbers were being critizised for being bloated?

We do the year over year comparisons in the year end summary episodes. I'll be recording those next week. I'm still working on some of the number crunching for that.

No one considered Dark Horse as being bloated when it had Star Wars but we do often discuss how reliant some publishers are on licensed properties. We did discuss what sort of impact losing it would have on Dark Horse. Likewise, the Star Wars brand should be seen as an acquisition and not as growth for Marvel. While it does increase what Marvel is producing, it is fundamentally a different kind of growth. And, yes, Marvel is doing much, much better with Star Wars than Dark Horse was able to do.

As for other content related reasons Marvel has more titles at the top of the list, Marvel seems to have more fans and to do a better job providing material those fans are interested in getting. Generally speaking, Marvel outsells DC on a regular basis usually through a combination of more items near the top of the list and sometimes by simply having more items on the list than DC. Marvel also tends to cancel titles at a higher sales level than DC does.

[NiklasJ]

I know the mainstream Marvel Universe has more comics and I think more titles than the mainstream DC universe. Based on my buying, I'm all in on both and getting a lot more Marvel than DC. As for across the entire publishing line, I'd have to check my database to be sure.

Well then, apples and pears discussion, same thing in the december stats posted yesterday, 70ish NI from Marvel and 90ish NI from DC but if you count just the marvel/dc mainstream properties marvel would probably hang around 60-70? and DC around 40-50? (guessing)

We do the year over year comparisons in the year end summary episodes. I'll be recording those next week. I'm still working on some of the number crunching for that.

I know I know, looking forward to it!

No one considered Dark Horse as being bloated when it had Star Wars but we do often discuss how reliant some publishers are on licensed properties. We did discuss what sort of impact losing it would have on Dark Horse. Likewise, the Star Wars brand should be seen as an acquisition and not as growth for Marvel. While it does increase what Marvel is producing, it is fundamentally a different kind of growth. And, yes, Marvel is doing much, much better with Star Wars than Dark Horse was able to do.

Interesting thing to check in your summary episode, split the Star Wars numbers from the Marvel main numbers to see how big impact it has had on the yearly numbers. They´ve had StarWars, Vader, Kanan main series and the minis Lando, Leia, Chewbacca, Shattered empire, anything else?

And sure the StarWars brand is an acquisition but seeing as they are publishing it "much, much better" than others before IMO it should still count for growth (in some way), not just be dismissed as "oh well star wars just sells a lot". Effort should count for something, and the SW has really had a lot of support at Marvel this year.

[Bartley]

Most chances are that a good portion of those increased buyers were already buying comics.

[MichaelCastle]

I know you guys have discussed it on previous episodes but why does Marvel let their omnibuses go out of print? The cost? Poor sales? It just seems weird to me that a company like Image can keep TWD omnibuses in print and DC keeps huge volumes like Absolute Sandman in print but Marvel does one print run and then it's done.

[NDHorse]

Hey John, thanks for the nod in this month's trades podcast for the info I give on the Comic Bento subscription boxes. Oddly, all of the books in the December Comic Bento box were NOT on the Diamond list. This was weird because I recently read on a Reddit post that they do most of their purchasing through Diamond.

The theme for December was "Throwback". The books I got were:

Youngblood Vol 1 Focus Tested - By Joe Casey and Derec Donovan - this was an OK attempt to bring back Youngblood in the '00s. I only got Youngblood for about 4 issues in the early 90s when I was a teenager, so I didn't have too much of an affinity for them. This one didn't get me to want more. I have been curious about the Alan Moore stuff though.

Incredible Hulk Marvel Masterwork Vol 2 TPB - These are the old Tales To Astonish issues 59-79 by Lee, Kirby, and Ditko. I haven't read this one yet, but classics like these will I am sure enjoyable. (Side note - other boxes appear to have gotten a Daredevil or Captain America Masterwork volume.)

Battlestar Galactica Vol 1 Memorial by Dan Abnett, Andy Lanning, and Cezar Rezak - This is a classic Battlestar story that involves time travel and alternate timelines. While I am a huge fan of the recent Battlestar reboot, I have never gotten into the Classic stories as much. However, this was

The Fifth Beatle: The Brian Epstein Story - This book was amazing. It is an oversized hardcover ($50 cover price) with story by Vivek Tiwary and art by Andrew Robinson. This blew me away. This is not the Pete Best story, but rather about Brian Epstein, the Beatles' manager. It is his story of his drive to make them "bigger than Elvis." It also deals with his ordeals of being a closeted gay man in the 60s (I am sure that wasn't easy). Great story and the art was amazing ( just check it out http://thefifthbeatle.com/graphic-novel/ ). I definetly recommend this one to anyone and it looks like the hardcover is on Amazon for $15. Grab this one people.

Overall a good month with The Fifth Beatle taking the prize by far.