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boshuda wrote:

JohnMayo wrote:

abysslord wrote:I'd like to see some stats on how many variants have held value ... John, care to take up that task somehow?

I have zero interest in tracking the value of incentive covers.

That having been said, if the data needed to do so happened to fall into my lap, I'd probably be willing to crunch the numbers and chart it. But I'm not about to start scrapping various websites trying to get a consensus on the value of incentive covers and then track how that changes over time.

It looks like http://comicbookrealm.com/, the site that was originally cited as selling the variant, tracks those values.

Not really how I was asking though. They have a free price guide and it's updated whenever needed by users posting evidence of a price increase/decrease.

He does keep the history of price changes though, so if you could just get the initial price and a dump of his price changes that would work. Still a lot of work.

I've got a friend who deals in Zenescope books a lot, and he knows a lot of the dealers that also deal in Zenescope, making these sorts of covers. What we can figure out is that there is a small, but rabid collecting base for this material.

When it comes down to it, no collecting is rational. Why would anybody buy a Fantastic Four 48, if they have already read a reprint, or a digital copy? If they haven't read it, why would anybody spend that much money just to read it? There is no logical reason to it.

Also, I'm not saying we should be logical about this, I think the best things in life tend to be illogical. I'm just trying to think this out.

(By the way, I saw a copy of Fantastic Four this weekend signed by Jack Kirby... and the dude who showed it to me bought it for a quarter in a thrift store! WOW!)

I collect Valiant variants. I've cooled down on it a bunch, since I just can't afford to keep up any more, and I had to switch my paradigm away from being a "completionist". I'd be happy to have every variant cover to every issue though. That's just my thing, and I have an irrational connection to the material. I know it's illogical, and I love it.

I think it is the same for Zenescope. There is a certain number of people that have decided that they want to collect Zenescope, so they go for it.

We all pick our poison.

BadDeacon wrote:
We all pick our poison.

Indeed.

I do think though that there is something to years of pricing data that shows demand and value. Spending $150 on FF 48 in VG and spending $150 on Grimm Fairy Tales xxx var Naughty in NM the day it comes out is fairly different.

The odds today that you get some decent percentage of your money back on FF is much higher than GFT.

But, I am a different collector than someone who buys modern variants so I don't pretend to know that market, just that it seems much more volatile.

And if you are spending $150 on a new book with no thought of what it might be worth later and no desire to ever sell it then more power to you.

Trev wrote: I do think though that there is something to years of pricing data that shows demand and value. Spending $150 on FF 48 in VG and spending $150 on Grimm Fairy Tales xxx var Naughty in NM the day it comes out is fairly different.

The odds today that you get some decent percentage of your money back on FF is much higher than GFT.

I'm not sure it's different unless you consider resale value in your collecting.

Trev wrote: And if you are spending $150 on a new book with no thought of what it might be worth later and no desire to ever sell it then more power to you.

That's me. I have ZERO interest in resale value. I don't sell any of my stuff, so if I want something, what it may be worth after I'm dead has no real bearing on the decision. It's "I want xxxx, does my level of want justify the price tag on it?"

That's my only decision criteria. It's what keeps me from buying Walking Dead #3. It's the only issue I'm missing but the amount I want it is not equal to the price tag in the $100s. On the other hand, I may want FF #8 at that same price because I want it more.

This maybe has a corollary to resale value, as I can't see the huge price tag for something more recent being "worth it" and I always wonder if I just wait 10 years can I get it cheaper. That's not a value retention judgement, more of a what would I be willing to pay for it and hoping it goes down in price after the TV show is off the air so that it's cost more closely matches my "desire price".

Back to Zenescope, if I REALLY wanted that naughty variant I might easily see it being "worth" $150 as long as my desire exceeded the price point. It doesn't, for that book, but I can see it.

BadDeacon wrote: I collect Valiant variants. I've cooled down on it a bunch, since I just can't afford to keep up any more, and I had to switch my paradigm away from being a "completionist". I'd be happy to have every variant cover to every issue though. That's just my thing, and I have an irrational connection to the material. I know it's illogical, and I love it.

This is an interesting sub-topic. I've been completionist on a lot of things in my life & once I get priced out of the market by artificially induced rarity & upward spiraling prices I've found it easy to walk away and quit something altogether.

This happened back when I used to collect trading card sets & HeroClix until they put out sets at ever increasing regularity with far too many rare/uniques. Same thing with Magic cards. All were things I'd spend 100s on per year and now I spend zero on them.

I was collecting all the Spider-Man variant covers until they upped the game & started putting out 1:50 and 1:100 covers, these were priced out of my "desire vs. price" equation so I was able to pull back & decide that I I could not realistically have a complete set, having an "almost complete" set was not quite so important to chase after.

I have a similar feeling when comics series get rebooted all the time. No more need to have a complete set that extends into volume 7. I can be happy with having a complete set of volume 1.

boshuda wrote: I would rather buy the variant Saga than the classic FF comic. The reason being that I have an emotional connection to Saga, but not the FF comic.

Sorry, I am not understanding what you're saying. Is this an alien language you are typing? the FANTASTIC FOUR being second fiddle? This does not compute. Does not compute!!!! HERBIE!!!!!



I understand your train of thought as for personal connections, I get that. But man, I just can't imagine any of those high-dollar variants maintaining their purchase (or flipped) value over time, but I maybe mistaken. That FF issue however, will almost assuredly go up in value even more. Not that that is the sole reason to purchase anything.

Again, that is not a blast towards people that dig the alternate covers and are willing to pay a lofty sum for them. No, as I said, we all get enjoyment out of different things and "worth" can be very personal (as my love for all things F4 related )

My friends give me a hard time because once a month the wife and I go out for a nice dinner and that usually runs about $250 to $300. My friends call my crazy to spend that much on something I will just ... ummm ... not hold for too long But for me, it is worth every penny because it gives the wife and I time to reconnect after weeks of work and the usual frustrations of life and spend some time together.

A comic you desire to possess can also be a very good way to escape the usual frustrations of life. Whichever way you decide to spend the money.

There is no wrong way to collect or enjoy comics ... unless it does not involve the family Fantastic.

Perry wrote: That FF issue however, will almost assuredly go up in value even more. Not that that is the sole reason to purchase anything.

My friends give me a hard time because once a month the wife and I go out for a nice dinner and that usually runs about $250 to $300. My friends call my crazy to spend that much on something I will just ... ummm ... not hold for too long But for me, it is worth every penny because it gives the wife and I time to reconnect after weeks of work and the usual frustrations of life and spend some time together.

Resale value never comes into the equation when I buy something I want.

Just like you don't consider the resale value of your $300 dinner. You only consider that you value the experience to be worth that amount of money and never consider that you will get anything monetary back on your investment.

BobBretall wrote:This is an interesting sub-topic. I've been completionist on a lot of things in my life & once I get priced out of the market by artificially induced rarity & upward spiraling prices I've found it easy to walk away and quit something altogether.

I was collecting all the Spider-Man variant covers until they upped the game & started putting out 1:50 and 1:100 covers, these were priced out of my "desire vs. price" equation so I was able to pull back & decide that I I could not realistically have a complete set, having an "almost complete" set was not quite so important to chase after.

I have a similar feeling when comics series get rebooted all the time. No more need to have a complete set that extends into volume 7. I can be happy with having a complete set of volume 1.

I found myself in the same boat. I used to ponder the idea of collecting all issues, including variants of Amazing Spider-man. Issue 666 was one tipping point. But the one the made it a fruitless task was when I read the potential incentive covers for issue 669. In a quick search to refresh my memory, it was the order 2,000 copies to have your face on the cover. For each cover incentive, you would get an additional 25 copies.

I don't know how many of these custom covers were produced, but I imagine these would make it darn near impossible to acquire a complete collection. It's not a matter of cost, but determining who ordered them and if they'd sell one.

I'd be curious if someone on the forum knows about issue 669 and if they are a variant completist for Amazing Spider-man, how they attain those variants and if they can't would it deter from continuing to collect them.

The blank covers also irritated me. It allowed numerous custom variants. I forced myself to consider those blank covers with sketches on them in the same category as a comic from the 60s that a kid colored or wrote their name on. The cover is white. Artwork on top is just defacing the original cover (however nice that artwork is).

The relaunching/renumbering of books also gave me the same feeling of what I collect. I focus on vol. 1 of Marvel and DC series. I may get issues from subsequent volumes, but there's no longer a desire to have all the issues from those. It's allowed me to start and stop series based on my enjoyment or non-enjoyment of story and/or art vs. the collector's need to have an unbroken run.

BobBretall wrote: Just like you don't consider the resale value of your $300 dinner. You only consider that you value the experience to be worth that amount of money and never consider that you will get anything monetary back on your investment.

Well true, but I also don't consider time with family and friends as being a "collectable" like I do comics or vinyl LP's. Something that I can either sell or re-live through actually repeating the reading or listening process. I understand that comics are not the same for everyone, but to me, that is where their value lies. If I want to listen to the grainy versions of an old Stones tune or I want to read about Galactus' first appearance, I can relive that same, exact experience over and over. Or, if I tire of it, I can sell it.

But with physical experiences (such as a great evening with the Wife, family and/or friends), as cherished as the can be, they can never be repeated in manner other than just the memory of them. Which can be just as valuable, but totally different in repeated approach.

There is value is in both, the retention of experience is not.

Perry wrote:

boshuda wrote: I would rather buy the variant Saga than the classic FF comic. The reason being that I have an emotional connection to Saga, but not the FF comic.

Sorry, I am not understanding what you're saying. Is this an alien language you are typing? the FANTASTIC FOUR being second fiddle? This does not compute. Does not compute!!!! HERBIE!!!!!

Sorry, not a fan of the FF. I may change my tune once I finally get around to reading them in order someday but currently the only member I have any interest in is Thing. I like Torch when he's giving Spidey grief, but otherwise - meh. The best Fantastic Four story for me was when they were all knocked out and Spidey, Wolvie, Hulk, and Ghost Rider had to be the FF for a few issues .

Perry wrote: I understand your train of thought as for personal connections, I get that. But man, I just can't imagine any of those high-dollar variants maintaining their purchase (or flipped) value over time, but I maybe mistaken. That FF issue however, will almost assuredly go up in value even more. Not that that is the sole reason to purchase anything.

I don't collect like this. I currently have Walking Dead 1-whatever and I will not ever read them again, they're actually set aside to list, but I still haven't done it. The closest I come to having this mentality is part of my justification for purchasing original art. In a pinch I could flip those for (hopefully) at least 50% of what I paid and if I had time to do it properly could hopefully pull out close to 100% of what I put into them.

Perry wrote: My friends give me a hard time because once a month the wife and I go out for a nice dinner and that usually runs about $250 to $300. My friends call my crazy to spend that much on something I will just ... ummm ... not hold for too long But for me, it is worth every penny because it gives the wife and I time to reconnect after weeks of work and the usual frustrations of life and spend some time together.

I suspect those people have never had a dinner like that. The difference between food at that price point and less than that is surprising.

boshuda wrote:I currently have Walking Dead 1-whatever and I will not ever read them again, they're actually set aside to list, but I still haven't done it.

I might be interested in buying them

boshuda wrote: The best Fantastic Four story for me was when they were all knocked out and Spidey, Wolvie, Hulk, and Ghost Rider had to be the FF for a few issues .

Now you are bordering on blasphemy, kind sir.

boshuda wrote: I suspect those people have never had a dinner like that. The difference between food at that price point and less than that is surprising.

Yes, sets a certain atmosphere that carries well beyond just a meal.