Weekly Comics Spotlight #027

[Skyhawke]

Salvation Run isn't the only place they are not giving names to lesser known villains. When I was entering character appearances into comicbookdb.com for the last two issues I notice they gave speaking roles and several panel appearances to villains and yet never once had their name referenced. Editors or their assistants are getting really lax these days it seems.

[JohnMayo]

I think that part of the problem is that they are expecting readers to read the entire story arc in one go. This is a "writing for the trades" mindset in action even if not by design. The more I think about it the more I think that the introduced all of the characters in a massive role call in a previous issue.

The other part of the problem is that if the the editors are doing a name check, that they are doing it at the script stage, not at the art stage. And the scripts probably have the characters referenced by name in the script. Of course, that is so the artist knows who all to draw. Unfortunately the names in the scripts don't make it into the final issue.

[HassanT]

John,

I agree with your assessment of Salvation Run. I think the mini will be forgotten the week after issue 8 ships. I like the first issue but as the series has progressed, I find the characterization to be inconsistent and very unbelievable. When I saw Vandal Savage, my first thought was how many times did he escape the JSofA or Flash but he got captured by the Suicide Squad?

Frankly, I found all of the DC mini-series related to Countdown to be sub-par. If it wasn't for the fact that they are almost over and I already pre-order majority of the issues, I would drop them.

[BobBretall]

Frankly, I found all of the DC mini-series related to Countdown to be sub-par. If it wasn't for the fact that they are almost over and I already pre-order majority of the issues, I would drop them.

You hit the nail on the head! The best thing that a lot of these have going for them is momentum. I have most of the issues, so I may as well finish them off......

[Wood]

I would couch that comment with "...except for Death of the New Gods."

I, like many of you, am reading most of the Countdown minis and not enjoying them. However, I think Starlin is in great form in DOTNG and can't wait to see what he's got planned next.

[JohnMayo]

While I don't think Death of the New Gods is Stalin's best work, it is fairly good. And, he did a great job explaining some of the big picture things that have been happening in the DCU for a while.

I guess I don't really consider that title part of the Countdown fiasco. Mainly because it is *much* better than the other titles.

[BobBretall]

I would couch that comment with "...except for Death of the New Gods."

Fair enough. I would not lump this one in with the rest of the sub-par Countdown stuff.

[Skyhawke]

Interesting, I haven't heard much talk about this series. And by that I mean, you always are hearing people talk about how subpar Countdown is along with the tie-ins. This was one of the things holding me back from buying the series, the other I was never that interested in Kirby's Fourth World but if it will give some insight as to what is coming up in Final Crisis, I might have to go and collect the back issues and read this.

[HassanT]

I would couch that comment with "...except for Death of the New Gods."

Fair enough. I would not lump this one in with the rest of the sub-par Countdown stuff.

I like the Death of the New Gods, but I think it would be much better without the countdown tie-in.

[choanata]

I'm not sure if this is a spoiler, it's really just my theory:




I was thinking about how they were killing off characters and I came up with a theory, that maybe this planet doesn't actually exist, that maybe it's some kind of computer simulation. Once you go there you get automatically plugged into the system, like the Matrix. The people dumping them there would have seen only what the programmers want them to see, an fairly safe world. Also, once you die, you go to a separate program so nobody gets wise.

If this is the case, I figure they'll learn it either as soon as they build a device to try and escape, or I think I heard something about the JLA going there at some point, so maybe then.

[JohnMayo]

I'm not sure if this is a spoiler, it's really just my theory:




I was thinking about how they were killing off characters and I came up with a theory, that maybe this planet doesn't actually exist, that maybe it's some kind of computer simulation. Once you go there you get automatically plugged into the system, like the Matrix. The people dumping them there would have seen only what the programmers want them to see, an fairly safe world. Also, once you die, you go to a separate program so nobody gets wise.

If this is the case, I figure they'll learn it either as soon as they build a device to try and escape, or I think I heard something about the JLA going there at some point, so maybe then.

Interesting theory but I'm not seeing anything that really supports it.

People are dumped onto the planet via a Boom Tube which is established technology in the DCU. (Not that the government should have that technology.) No sign of a Matrix like computer simulation there.

Martian Manhunter was able to contact Batman and the JLA via some sort of communicator. (And obviously a really, really good communicator since this planet could be in the New Gods quasi-pocket dimension and not in the normal part of the universe. I can't remember off the top of my head id New Genesis is only accessible via Boom Tubes. People can't just fly through space and get there, right?) No sign of a Matrix like computer simulation there either.

I'm not saying you are wrong, just that I'm not seeing any clue to backup the theory and a few that seem to imply that the Salvation Run planet is an actual planet somewhere. Albeit not a nice friendly little planet like the villains were told. It is very likely that it never was a nice planet and that the villains were lied to.

Still, given the high body count, I'm not going to completely dismiss a theory like that which could "unkill" some of the characters.

There is a good chance that some sort of reset button it going to get hit in Final Crisis.

Who knows, this time next year all of the stories could take place on
"New New Earth"...

[Fnord Serious]

Salvation Run isn't the only place they are not giving names to lesser known villains. When I was entering character appearances into comicbookdb.com for the last two issues I notice they gave speaking roles and several panel appearances to villains and yet never once had their name referenced. Editors or their assistants are getting really lax these days it seems.

I've noticed this happening in New Avengers. In the first story arc they wind up in the Savage Land, fighting the Mutates. I recognized all the characters, but only the lead bad guy was given a name. Similarly, with the recent Hood's Gang story, most of the bad guys were only identified on the "story so far" page, which doesn't help when the story gets collected in trade and all the synopsis pages are excised.

[JohnMayo]

The not naming of names is part of the writing for the trade trend and really cuts into the accessibility of the stories.

While I don't think things need to go back to the Claremont-esque "I, Storm, goddess of the winds, leader of the X-Men must deal with my fear of enclosed places due to claustrophobia" kind of thought balloons or captions, it would be nice if characters that either speak or play a meaningful part in the story were at least named when they first appear.

I can be a bit forgiving when the extras that are in the background and don't really do anything in the story are not named. But not so much when key characters in the story go unidentified.

It is increasingly unreasonable for the creators to just expect us to remember everything about a storyline told over the span of five or six months, sometimes much, much longer.

[choanata]

Interesting theory but I'm not seeing anything that really supports it.

People are dumped onto the planet via a Boom Tube which is established technology in the DCU. (Not that the government should have that technology.) No sign of a Matrix like computer simulation there.

Martian Manhunter was able to contact Batman and the JLA via some sort of communicator. (And obviously a really, really good communicator since this planet could be in the New Gods quasi-pocket dimension and not in the normal part of the universe. I can't remember off the top of my head id New Genesis is only accessible via Boom Tubes. People can't just fly through space and get there, right?) No sign of a Matrix like computer simulation there either.

I'm not saying you are wrong, just that I'm not seeing any clue to backup the theory and a few that seem to imply that the Salvation Run planet is an actual planet somewhere. Albeit not a nice friendly little planet like the villains were told. It is very likely that it never was a nice planet and that the villains were lied to.

Still, given the high body count, I'm not going to completely dismiss a theory like that which could "unkill" some of the characters.

There is a good chance that some sort of reset button it going to get hit in Final Crisis.

Who knows, this time next year all of the stories could take place on
"New New Earth"...

It's pretty much speculation, but here's my thoughts:

You are correct in that the governemnt shouldn't have Boom Tube Technology. So where did they get it? And couldn't it have been modified so that when someone goes through the tube, they are knocked unconscious, hooked up to the system, and then we see them enter the program?

And as for Martian Manhunter, the way I was reading that, he was sending a message to Batman, hoping that he would get it, but knowing that there was a chance it wouldn't reach him. He wasn't getting 2-way communication, which could be because they are so far apart, in another dimension, or in a computer program.

The other thing that caused me to think this up was the fact that the robot monsters keep coming out of nowhere, and there are tons. Easy to program in a computer, although to be fair it could just be Apokoliptian tech being controlled by remote.

It's not a completely solid theory, but it would make some sense the way they play hard and fast with the lives of some of these villains.

[JohnMayo]

You are correct in that the governemnt shouldn't have Boom Tube Technology. So where did they get it? And couldn't it have been modified so that when someone goes through the tube, they are knocked unconscious, hooked up to the system, and then we see them enter the program?

Now that I've thought about it a little more, I suppose that the government could have gotten the Boom Tube technology from Olong Island. Reversed engineered it off of a Mother Box. And New Gods have been dropping like flies recently. Still, it would take time to reverse engineer a Boom Tube generator. Perhaps they got it off old Intergang equipment. There are a number of possibilities for how the government got the technology. The most likely one is from the warden of the Slab: Shilo Norman the second Mister Miracle.

And while it could have been modified to knock people out and hook them to a computer simulation, that seems like a lot of work versus just dumping the villains on a planet be it hospitable or hostile.

I guess the thing about your theory that makes it hard for me to accept is that it is fairly complicated and a simpler solution seems more likely.

And, given the diverse nature of the villains I find it hard to accept that all of them would have been fooled by a computer simulation. Psimon and Grodd are high level telepaths and should have noticed something being unreal if they were in a computer simulations. Then again, maybe that is why they were killed off...

And as for Martian Manhunter, the way I was reading that, he was sending a message to Batman, hoping that he would get it, but knowing that there was a chance it wouldn't reach him. He wasn't getting 2-way communication, which could be because they are so far apart, in another dimension, or in a computer program.

Your point that it wasn't two-way communication is an excellent one. That does allow for the possibility that it was recorded and resent by a third party. I hadn't considered that.

The other thing that caused me to think this up was the fact that the robot monsters keep coming out of nowhere, and there are tons. Easy to program in a computer, although to be fair it could just be Apokoliptian tech being controlled by remote.

This is another excellent point. The creatures aren't natural given the insane amount of technology implanted in some and the blatant robotic nature of others.

While they don't seem like Apokoliptian tech, they very well could be. This could be a training planet of sorts in the New Genesis corner of reality.

It's not a completely solid theory, but it would make some sense the way they play hard and fast with the lives of some of these villains.

Or it could just be shortsightedness on the part of DC editorial.
Or a result of changing plans for Final Crisis.
Or a cheap way to make the series seem important and relevant.

All in all, it is an interesting theory but, like you said, not completely solid. Of course, it isn't completely invalid either so, who knows, you could be completely right on this.