I know I'm dreaming here...

[thefreakytiki]

WWhat if as fans we stage a protest on the on the $3.99 price point. What I mean by that is as fans we pick a top selling Marvel book and a top selling DC book and refuse to buy them for one month. I'm not saying to stop buying the chosen title all together just one single pre-determined issue number. It is the only way to show who has the real power here, us the buyer.

We need to take the power back from the companies. We need to tell THEM how the future of the hobby will be, not the other way around.


I propose a concentrated effort. One that will need unwavering commitment by all. We will need to get the word out months in advance so all retailers are prepared for the boycott and they won't get left holding the bag. We have to hit all the comic "news agencies" and EVERY podcast to start a movement.


WHO"S WITH ME?!?!?!?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI



the Tiki




PS. I know I'm dreaming but do you think this has merit?

[JohnMayo]

WWhat if as fans we stage a protest on the on the $3.99 price point. What I mean by that is as fans we pick a top selling Marvel book and a top selling DC book and refuse to buy them for one month. I'm not saying to stop buying the chosen title all together just one single pre-determined issue number. It is the only way to show who has the real power here, us the buyer.

We need to take the power back from the companies. We need to tell THEM how the future of the hobby will be, not the other way around.


I propose a concentrated effort. One that will need unwavering commitment by all. We will need to get the word out months in advance so all retailers are prepared for the boycott and they won't get left holding the bag. We have to hit all the comic "news agencies" and EVERY podcast to start a movement.


WHO"S WITH ME?!?!?!?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI



the Tiki




PS. I know I'm dreaming but do you think this has merit?

I really think that encouraging people to *not* buy a comic is counter-productive.

The reason prices are going to increase is because not enough people are buying comics and they aren't profitable enough. We should be finding ways to encourage people to support comics and ways to make those comics more economically viable for the publishers. Organizing a boycott seems like a really negative solution to the problem.

And, if the boycott fails for some reason then you entire "readers have the power" is undercut. After all, it would take tens of thousands of people not only not buying a comic but having told their retailers that in advance for this to work. Even if readers told the retailers, who knows if they would go with the boycott. If they did they could be stuck with too few copies when the issue actually ships if readers decide they really do want it. Even if readers stick to the boycott, this still hurts retailers because they have now lost sales on the chosen issue. Sure, they *may* not get stuck with unsold copies but they also didn't sell the full amount they could have sold had the boycott not taken place.

Wouldn't a better and more upbeat approach to the problem be to pick a $2.99 book that has been canceled and organize a buying frenzy for it? Kind of a final send off for the title? It would take a lot less to double or triple the final issue sales of some of these titles. That would benefit the retailers and would actually involve readers withing *with* their wallets versus just withholding money and punishing a given issue.

While this is a hobby for the readers, it is a business for the retailers, publishers and creators. We need to respect that and work with them. Punishing them with a boycott seems adversarial and counter-productive.

[BobBretall]

I'm already in the "I'm not buying $3.99 books" mode. A lot of the minis that have come out at that price point have been ones I have skipped, and I have already decided to just skip any subsequent series that come out as normal 22 page books at that price point.

I think the Marvels: Eye of the Camera will be my last one.

I think of this less as a "boycott" as a message that I am not willing to support 22 page books for $3.99 and I'm voting with my wallet. Since I pre-order, this gives the retailer plenty of time to react.

I think any "boycott" should take the form of a series being solicited, where readers (instead of just not buying the book off the stands) make a point of telling their retailer "DO NOT order a copy of this expecting to sell it to me, I am not going to buy this 22 page book for $3.99 when it comes out."

This will remove the "sticking the retailer with a copy" problem, and move this into the "voting with your wallet" mode.

PS: I think that an "organize readers to buy a failing $2.99 book" will be fruitless. I'm guessing Podcast listeners would not (in any significant numbers) go out and buy things that they were not already inclined to buy just to support a movement.

[JohnMayo]

I'm already in the "I'm not buying $3.99 books mode. A lot of the minis that have come out at that price point have been ones I have skipped, and I have already decided to just skip any subsequent series that come out as normal 22 page books at that price point.

I think the Marvels: Eye of the Camera will be my last one.


PS: I think that an "organize readers to buy a failing $2.99 book" will be fruitless. I'm guessing Podcast listeners would not (in any significant numbers) go out and buy things that they were not already inclined to buy just to support a movement.

Yeah, you are probably right. But Tiki was suggesting a massive grass roots campaign well beyond the comic book podcast listening communities. And it would only take about 15,000 additional sales to double the numbers of Amazing Spider-Girl. A lost of 15,000 on a top selling Marvel title might not be all that noticeable or traceable to a boycott.

I don't think either a boycott or buying campaign would work but if I had to choose, I'd rather encourage people to buy a comic than to encourage them not to.

[thefreakytiki]

I don't disagree with either of you boys. I'm kinda just thinking out loud and seeing how the masses react.


the Tiki

[JohnMayo]

I don't disagree with either of you boys. I'm kinda just thinking out loud and seeing how the masses react.


the Tiki

That seems a bit like stirring the pot for the sake of doing so. The potential outcomes are to encourage people to not buy something, to get people focused on the negative aspects of a price hike and to foster a reader versus publisher attitude. None of which seem like a good thing.

[BobBretall]

I don't disagree with either of you boys. I'm kinda just thinking out loud and seeing how the masses react.


the Tiki

I agree with your general premise that readers should rise up against the price hike, but I think the best way to do that is to let your LCS know "I'm not going to buy those 22-page $3.99 books being solicited".

Then, when they come out, REALLY DO NOT BUY THEM!

[thefreakytiki]

That seems a bit like stirring the pot for the sake of doing so. The potential outcomes are to encourage people to not buy something, to get people focused on the negative aspects of a price hike and to foster a reader versus publisher attitude. None of which seem like a good thing.

I think your over thinking it.

My premise is to consolidate the vote with your wallet mantra. When everyone is voting a little here and a little there, a true "message" isn't sent/felt by the publishers. By organizing and targeting one issue for one month I view it as a economic "sit in" protest.

I am just really feeling conflicted by this whole 33% price hike (I mean what other form of entertainment raises prices by 33%?).

For the past 2 financial quarters Marvel has blamed the cost of talent and paper as the publishing profits decline. Mind you, any creator under an exclusive contract can not be hurt by these statements (for now), but Marvel & DC have done nothing to change/down grade their paper selection. I honestly don't think that a "downgrade" of paper will lessen my appreciation of the art in any comic.


the Tiki

[JohnMayo]

I don't disagree with either of you boys. I'm kinda just thinking out loud and seeing how the masses react.


the Tiki

I agree with your general premise that readers should rise up against the price hike, but I think the best way to do that is to let your LCS know "I'm not going to buy those 22-page $3.99 books being solicited".

Then, when they come out, REALLY DO NOT BUY THEM!

Which is another negative approach to fixing the core problem.

I agree that $3.99 is too much for 22 pages of story. I'm not suggesting people support the price point if they don't want to.

But, rather than simply dropping titles or boycotting issues, shouldn't we put on our thinking caps and see if we can fix the core problem of these titles not being financially viable for the publishers?

[JohnMayo]

That seems a bit like stirring the pot for the sake of doing so. The potential outcomes are to encourage people to not buy something, to get people focused on the negative aspects of a price hike and to foster a reader versus publisher attitude. None of which seem like a good thing.

I think your over thinking it.

My premise is to consolidate the vote with your wallet mantra. When everyone is voting a little here and a little there, a true "message" isn't sent/felt by the publishers. By organizing and targeting one issue for one month I view it as a economic "sit in" protest.

I am just really feeling conflicted by this whole 33% price hike (I mean what other form of entertainment raises prices by 33%?).

For the past 2 financial quarters Marvel has blamed the cost of talent and paper as the publishing profits decline. Mind you, any creator under an exclusive contract can not be hurt by these statements (for now), but Marvel & DC have done nothing to change/down grade their paper selection. I honestly don't think that a "downgrade" of paper will lessen my appreciation of the art in any comic.


the Tiki

Ok, for the sake of discussion, say we agree that this does consolidate the "vote with your wallet mantra" and does send a clear message that readers are against the $3.99 price.

First, do you really think that the publishers think we want a price hike? They seem reluctant to raise prices if there is any way to avoid doing so.

Second, even if this is some sort of surprise for the publishers and it results in them suddenly realizing that readers don't want a price hike, then what? They can't keep prices down or they wouldn't be raising them to begin with. This indicates that raising prices could cause sales to completely tank. So, instead of raising prices it looks like the only option is to cancel titles.

While a strong case could be made that there are too many titles being published these days, it is equally likely that Marvel and DC are publishing so many because they have to in order to make ends meet. Cutting back on the number of titles would result in creators going unemployed and cut into the cash flow for retailers.

Readers have fewer titles to pick from.
Retailer have fewer products and lower cash flow.
Publishers have reduced income and are more dependent on each of the titles they continue to produce.
Creators have fewer job opportunities.

Where is the upside? For anybody...

Things are broken. That much is clear.

But instead of complaining about it and trying to punish the publishers and retailers shouldn't we be trying to offer constructive suggestions supported by strong and compelling business cases?

Sure, it isn't our job as readers to solve these problems. We're here to be entertained. But, if we want to continue to be entertained and at a price we are happy with, we should be stepping up to the plate instead of just throwing stones.

[BobBretall]

But instead of complaining about it and trying to punish the publishers and retailers shouldn't we be trying to offer constructive suggestions supported by strong and compelling business cases?

Sure, it isn't our job as readers to solve these problems. We're here to be entertained. But, if we want to continue to be entertained and at a price we are happy with, we should be stepping up to the plate instead of just throwing stones.

In a perfect world, yes.

In the world we live in, I doubt Marvel/DC are going to listen to any proposal from fans/podcasters, regardless of how brilliant it is or supported by business cases.

Any suggestions coming from outside of Marvel/DC will suffer from "Not Invented Here" syndrome, and be disregarded.

Just my opinion.

PS: I offered several suggestions farther up the thread. However, I don't care how many creators are thrown out of work, I'm not going to support 22-page $3.99 comics moving forward, until that is the ONLY option. When that day comes, I'll cut my purchases back by 25%.

[thefreakytiki]

John,

I do understand your point and I respect your opinion on the matter. Maybe the answer isn't with us or the retailers but a "changing of the guard" needs to happen at the big 2. By that I don't mean the creative people (i.e. writers, artists and editors) but rather the suits holding the purse strings and counting the coins. Now I know that there is nothing WE can do about that. But I'm just trying do do something.

I am just feeling a bit beaten up. There doesn't seem to be any good news coming out about the hobby I love so much. I can usually look at the bright side of a down situation but I just feel like the "bad/dire" stuff is coming at such rapid pace that the volume is my kryptonite.

Ugh.


the Tiki

[JohnMayo]

But instead of complaining about it and trying to punish the publishers and retailers shouldn't we be trying to offer constructive suggestions supported by strong and compelling business cases?

Sure, it isn't our job as readers to solve these problems. We're here to be entertained. But, if we want to continue to be entertained and at a price we are happy with, we should be stepping up to the plate instead of just throwing stones.

In a perfect world, yes.

In the world we live in, I doubt Marvel/DC are going to listen to any proposal from fans/podcasters, regardless of how brilliant it is or supported by business cases.

Any suggestions coming from outside of Marvel/DC will suffer from "Not Invented Here" syndrome, and be disregarded.

Just my opinion.

PS: I offered several suggestions farther up the thread. However, I don't care how many creators are thrown out of work, I'm not going to support 22-page $3.99 comics moving forward, until that is the ONLY option. When that day comes, I'll cut my purchases back by 25%.

You may well be right that DC and Marvel won't listen to whatever we might come up with. Just the same, wouldn't it be nice to have a viable alternative figured out on the off chance that they might be willing to listen?

Once we have a solution with a solid chance of working, then we can tackle of the issue of getting Marvel and/or DC to consider it.

I must have missed your suggestions above. The only one I recall (from the Marvel Price Hike thread) was for them to increase the amount of new content as they increase the price. While I agree that seems fair, I can't see how that could possibly make the comic any more viable for the publisher.


My concern here is that people are going to drop titles when the price goes to $3.99. Sales are low enough for that to potentially be a huge problem for the publishers and the industry as a whole. I'd like for comics to continue to be published for decades to come. For that to happen, the business model needs to be fixed.


I'm not saying the readers have to pay higher prices or that creators and publishers might not get negatively impacted. What I am saying is that we need to be telling the publishers something other than we aren't going to pay a higher price. If that is all they hear from us, of course they are going to disregard what we as readers have to say.


Maybe I'm being overly optimistic that publishers might notice and listen to what we have to say. Or, maybe there is a realistic chance that we could find an avenue for presenting our ideas in a manner that they would take seriously.


I'd rather continue to try to come up with constructive suggestions and solid business cases for them rather than just concede that prices will go up, sales will go down until publishing comics is a completely unsustainable business.

[JohnMayo]

John,

I do understand your point and I respect your opinion on the matter. Maybe the answer isn't with us or the retailers but a "changing of the guard" needs to happen at the big 2. By that I don't mean the creative people (i.e. writers, artists and editors) but rather the suits holding the purse strings and counting the coins.

Sure, a changing of the guard in the big two may be needed. But that just begs the question of what that mythical new guard should do. Again, specific constructive suggestions with solid business cases seem like they would be a lot more productive than just wishing things were better.

Now I know that there is nothing WE can do about that. But I'm just trying do do something.

I disagree with this. I firmly believe that we can and should do something about this. The publishers don't seem to be having any success so why shouldn't we try to come up with a better game plan?

Your attitude on this and Bob's comments along the lines that they won't listen to us any way so why bother are understandable. You both might be right and there may be nothing we can do about it. I'm not ready to concede that yet.

I know for a fact that people at the various publishers do read what my CBR articles. That isn't to say that act on what i have to say or even if they take it seriously or not. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. But they do read those articles. That is just one avenue we have for putting forth a possible solution to downward sales and resulting the price hike.

I'd much rather try to fix things than throw up my hands in defeat.

I am just feeling a bit beaten up. There doesn't seem to be any good news coming out about the hobby I love so much. I can usually look at the bright side of a down situation but I just feel like the "bad/dire" stuff is coming at such rapid pace that the volume is my kryptonite.

Ugh.


the Tiki

I know I am probably coming on a bit strong on this issue but I'm honestly not trying to beat up you (or Bob for that matter). Things are at the point that even if the industry can survive a shift to a $3.99 price point (and I have my doubts), I have a really hard time seeing it surviving a price hike after that. This is a serious problem and one that needs to be addressed. We are smart people with a vested interest in seeing the problem solved. So why not take a shot at solving it?

[thefreakytiki]

Yay John. You make me smile.



the Tiki