Mayo Report

[SpideySavestheDay]

DC is living high off the hog with Batman and why not. It has become their flagship title, even selling more than their event title, Forever Evil. Batman is carrying 13 (counting mini-series) of DC'S 52 with the Bat-family books. Demand is high for Batman and equilibrium will be achieved with supply when DC finds the price point people are willing to fork over. I can see DC increasing the price of Batman from 3.99 to 4.99 permanently and justifying it by pointing out all the other books it produces for 2.99.

To compare apples to apples, is Batman more expensive per page than, let's say, one of Marvel's flagships - Spider-man? The answer is no. Spider-man is shipped twice a month to Batman's one and charges 3.99 an issue. Batman #25 had 29 pages of story and Spider-man #22 had 20*. When crunching the numbers, Batman comes out on top. Is Spider-man 'superior' (pun intended) to Batman, maybe, but both books represent some of the best their company's have to offer - excellent stories and art with a rich history.

I know this conversation about the economics of comic publishing seems out of place. Heck, we should be having a 'real' comic conversation about what would happen if the two superheros fought. As of today, jumping off Batman due to a price increase at this point doesn't make sense. We are paying for a top quality book not only in DC's line up, but for most titles being printed from any company. If the market can bear Marvel shipping twice a month, then it can bear a title increasing its price to 4.99. I, for one, will continue to read both titles until they give me an economical reason not to.

*I'm reading Batman traditionally and Spidey digitally. Please let me know if the format differences effects the page count.

[JohnMayo]

I know this conversation about the economics of comic publishing seems out of place. Heck, we should be having a 'real' comic conversation about what would happen if the two superheros fought.

I don't think this conversation is out of place at all. I strongly suspect that a lot more people have dropped comics because of economic than because of the outcome a battle between two super-heroes.

Both Batman and Spider-Man (Amazing and Superior) cost more than other titles. In the case of Batman it is because of the longer issues at $3.99 and the higher priced issues that they have been doing a bit often. With Spider-Man, the additional cost is because of the increased frequency and the "bonus digital copy" that costs an extra dollar. Both can cause readers on with budgetary limitations to drop the titles.

As much as I'd like to see another Batman/Spider-Man story, I'd also like to see prices low enough and the return-on-investment high enough for comics to retain readers so there are readers around whenever that next Batman/Spider-Man gets told.

[SpideySavestheDay]

John, you are the best to speculate upon this due to your knowledge and study of price points. By looking at the price fluxuation of Batman over the year, do you believe DC is flirting with a 4.99 price point?

I love both Spidey and Batman and their books are hitting my wallet a little harder than most other. I just hope Marvel and DC are not pricing them out of a casual or young buyer's hands .

PS - A light hearted Amazing Spiderman with a brooding Batman might make for a nice buddy comic.

[JohnMayo]

John, you are the best to speculate upon this due to your knowledge and study of price points. By looking at the price fluxuation of Batman over the year, do you believe DC is flirting with a 4.99 price point?

I love both Spidey and Batman and their books are hitting my wallet a little harder than most other. I just hope Marvel and DC are not pricing them out of a casual or young buyer's hands .

PS - A light hearted Amazing Spiderman with a brooding Batman might make for a nice buddy comic.

The $4.99 price point will probably be common for annuals and other larger than normal comics but I don't think DC is looking at $4.99 as a standard price point. I think we are more likely to see $3.99 comics with around 25 to 30 pages of content start to become more common over at DC. I'm not expecting the $2.99 price point to be as common by the end of 2014 as it is now. By the end of 2015, the $2.99 very well might be the standard price on only a handful of titles, if that many.

I'm not convinced it is really possible to be a casual comic book fan these days. If the casual fans haven't been priced out of the hobby, they are likely to be over the course of the next year or two. With crossovers, events, relaunches and the like, it seems increasingly difficult to dabble in comics.

I've always thought a Nightwing and Amazing Spider-Man buddy comic would be a ton of fun. They are similar enough and different enough that I could buy them as good friend were they to live in the same world. That having been said, a serious Batman with the light hearted Amazing Spider-Man could also make for a great series.

Should we every get a merged universe story, having Peter Parker take the place of Dick Grayson could be very interesting and fun. Peter's parents die, he becomes the ward of Bruce Wayne. Peter later gets bitten by a radioactive spider at a WayneTech facility and grows up to date super-model Starfire instead of Mary Jane. I could see a lot of fun opportunities merging those two mythos.

[simonuk]

I'm not convinced it is really possible to be a casual comic book fan these days. If the casual fans haven't been priced out of the hobby, they are likely to be over the course of the next year or two. With crossovers, events, relaunches and the like, it seems increasingly difficult to dabble in comics.

On the issue of attracting casual readers; with friends or colleagues I've found them enthusiastic about dipping their toe in the water with the trades where they know they are getting a whole story and can get the book from amazon. However, the idea of issues often sees them scared off by the common problems described above, and the greater effort they feel would be required to purchase the material. (I don't know if this is a greater issue outside the US) The major result is that I have found when people see superheroes in the media, for example batman, the majority who express an interest will never follow it up, and the minority who then do will head for the classic trade (Killing Joke, Year One etc, etc) and not then pick up the current output, even in trade.

Equally, as described in the podcasts in the past, I see very little attempt to encourage consumers of other media to funnel viewers into casually trying out an issue. Is it that you get less new and initially casual readers because these opportunities to entice them aren't taken. Or is the lack of advertising in this field a de facto admittance by these companies that their material often isn't suitable for this casual fanbase.

For those who express enough of an interest to quiz you, or start looking it up on the internet the events and crossovers are always a major stumbling block. Issues like continuity have been addressed to an extent by the reboots, and Wikipedia, yet I know many people who would find it too frustrating to feel that a part of the story they were engaged in was going on out of sight, and therefore being unable or unwilling to be all-in (like most of us) decide that its better to sit it out. Indeed, to start with, what I find most people who declare an interest want is a few stand alone books where they can get their fill of a familiar character, or read exciting new material in the medium. Therefore, attempts to draw them in further through events and crossovers seem like arm-twisting, and attempts to extract greater money for little more material, seem more predatory. I must admit that I find that when adopting these techniques the industry can come across a bit like Gil from The Simpsons, acting through desperation, and less like the confident industry it could giving the prevalence of its material in mainstream media.

[fudd71]

I was just listening to the Trades episode, great job John and Chris. I was wondering about all the Marvel Omnibuses that showed up on the list. Were they mostly new releases or was this reorder activity? Do you think this was just stores stocking up on Christmas stock for people looking for gifts? Do we know if Marvel/Diamond ran some kind of sale or promotion to move these that would account for them all showing up on the list? If it was promotion, do we have any idea how good a deal they would have offered stores?

[DNAlien]

I was curious about those Omnibus relists as well (the only new ones were DEADPOOL BY KELLY, FF BY BYRNE v2 and the new printing of the Silver Age FF v2), especially since some of those sold more last month than they did in their initial month of release (a few didn't even make the top 300 in their initial month).

Based on the dollar rankings that Diamond gives for the top 100 over here:
http://www.diamondcomics.com/Home/1/1/3 ... eID=143861
which are based on dollars invoiced, not on cover price, you can see that the rankings for the relists are much lower than they would be if they were being sold anywhere near full price. FF BY BYRNE v2 and DEADPOOL BY KELLY rise up to #1 and #3, as you'd expect (#2 is probably the $150 DC VILLAINS book, which just missed the top 100 by units), but the other expensive books don't rise up much, and some of them even fall.

The numbers available aren't enough to confidently say what retailers were paying, but doing some quick extrapolation and algebra and using my memories of discount levels from the invoices I saw when I briefly worked in a comic shop a decade ago it looks like the discounts ranged from 85% to 90%+. Which is probably why you'll see a lot of these for sale for $20 at conventions soon, since the retailers probably got them for $10-$15 wholesale.

On another topic, I don't know if it was ever verified, but what I heard at the time was that they didn't use the name Skrulls for the aliens who were obviously Skrulls in the Avengers movie was that Skrulls fall under the Fantastic Four related characters license.

[drew]

On another topic, I don't know if it was ever verified, but what I heard at the time was that they didn't use the name Skrulls for the aliens who were obviously Skrulls in the Avengers movie was that Skrulls fall under the Fantastic Four related characters license.

never thought of that, but that make sense i guess, hey - welcome to the forum DNalien

[simonuk]

You discussed the disappointing nature of the performance of Valiant Comics in the sales, after the high point of Unity #1.

Anecdotally, I got into the Valiant books a year or so into the run on the basis of your recommendation on the podcasts and so started collecting the trades because; one I was coming in late and i'd need to trace back issues, and two the cost in the UK meant I could get a trade collecting 4-5 issues for a price similar to 2 individual issues. The ones I have got so far are all formatted the same, with different colour spine text for each title and therefore sit nicely on the shelf with each other. Equally, the regularity in which they are bringing out these trades has been impressive. Therefore, I am wondering whether you have noticed over the months whether there is any silver lining in the trade numbers that suggests a similar phenomenon on a larger scale?

[jonah]

I was just listening to the Trades episode, great job John and Chris. I was wondering about all the Marvel Omnibuses that showed up on the list. Were they mostly new releases or was this reorder activity? Do you think this was just stores stocking up on Christmas stock for people looking for gifts? Do we know if Marvel/Diamond ran some kind of sale or promotion to move these that would account for them all showing up on the list? If it was promotion, do we have any idea how good a deal they would have offered stores?

Oh yeah, these had to be sent to retailers at blow out prices. Omnibus I've purchased so far (*) or prices I've seen from the Top 100 list (reprints only). These prices points are/were available at a number of retailers, some lower, around this average, some running somewhat to much higher.


AVENGERS OMNIBUS HC VOL 01 JRJR CVR - $33.95
MARVEL ZOMNIBUS HC $42.95
ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN OMNIBUS HC VOL 01 QUESADA CVR - $32.95
X-MEN AGE OF APOCALYPSE OMNIBUS HC - $79.95 (saw cheaper in Dec 13)
* AMAZING SPIDER-MAN BY MCFARLANE OMNIBUS HC $37.99
ULTIMATE COMICS AVENGERS BY MARK MILLAR OMNIBUS HC $23.95
PUNISHER BY RICK REMENDER OMNIBUS HC $34.95
NEW AVENGERS OMNIBUS HC VOL 01 $37.95
* X-STATIX OMNIBUS HC $31.87
JOHN CARTER WARLORD OF MARS OMNIBUS HC $27.95
* X-FORCE OMNIBUS HC VOL 01 $35.00
SQUADRON SUPREME BY MARK GRUENWALD OMNIBUS HC $24.95
* ACTS OF VENGEANCE CROSSOVERS OMNIBUS HC DAVIS CVR $34.99
SECRET WARRIORS OMNIBUS HC - $26.99

Others I've seen that aren't on the Top 100 list include:
Avengers - The Crossing - $28.95
ManThing Omnibus (Gerber) - $42.95 (Saw cheaper earlier this month)
* Untold Tales of Spider-man - $39.99
* Jim Lee X-men Vol 1 Omnibus - $37.99
West Coast Avengers - $32.95
Marvel Now Omnibus - $27.95

[SpideySavestheDay]

You discussed the disappointing nature of the performance of Valiant Comics in the sales, after the high point of Unity #1

I think Valiant would be happy with an average of 15K for Unity. It is probably not far from its plateau judging by the other valiant titles (9K). Fans of the other series who are not all in will pick up this title to see the whole universe come together. Maybe it will lead them to other Valiant titles. I think the question to be asked is - "Are Unity's readers new to the Valiant universe or fans of other Valiant titles?" Unity does not strike me as a title made for people outside the current universe. A fresh new character is needed for that.

[drew]

i originally thought the month was way down but upon closer inspection (and comichron.com):

Records set during the month:

• Highest dollar volume for Top 300 Trade Paperbacks in a single month: $10.51 million

• Highest dollar volume for comics and graphic novels ordered in a quarter: $134.79 million, beating the record set last quarter.

• Highest dollar market share for IDW: 8.18%

Additionally, the combined market shares of IDW, Image, and Dark Horse are higher than has been seen for the 3-4-5 publishers since 2003.

[JohnMayo]

i originally thought the month was way down but upon closer inspection (and comichron.com):

Records set during the month:

• Highest dollar volume for Top 300 Trade Paperbacks in a single month: $10.51 million

• Highest dollar volume for comics and graphic novels ordered in a quarter: $134.79 million, beating the record set last quarter.

• Highest dollar market share for IDW: 8.18%

Additionally, the combined market shares of IDW, Image, and Dark Horse are higher than has been seen for the 3-4-5 publishers since 2003.

Keep in mind, those are the overall market shares and not the breakdowns of the top sellers list that I talk about. I tend to avoid discussing data points when the supporting data for them is unavailable. The market shares include all sales (comics, trades, magazines, toys, etc) some of which obviously falls outside of the scope of the more granular data provided by the best sellers lists.

Those market shares are also reflective of a weaker than usual month for DC and Marvel.

Dollar figures for comics and trades have a generally upwards trend over time more based on price increases than on unit sales increases. Dollars are obviously very important but it is the unit sales trends that drive the market since the dollars are generated by unit sales.

Personally, I find the sales trends much more interesting and relevant than things like the overall dollar volume and market shares. Given the way new titles launch strong and then plummet in sales of just fade away in sales and the number of higher price comics and trades, the overall dollar figures don't seem to be a useful metric in terms of sales trends.

Looking at those stats, it does seem to be an "up" month. But those stats often paint a fairly positive picture which would imply the industry is in a much healthier state than I think it is. If things were a positive as the aggregate sales might lead one to believe, Shouldn't there have been more than three comics over 100,000 in sales? Should there be longer lasting titles? Only 30 items have issue numbers over 36, five of which were the Amazing Spider-Man quasi-mini-series and another two of which are for titles announced as ending in the foreseeable future.

I guess because I buy individual units of particular titles, I tend to focus a lot more on the units sales trends of titles than things like the dollar market share and quarterly dollar volume. While setting records in those areas is a good things, personally I don't think it is indicative of the state of the sales trends in the direct market.


All of that having been said, I think it is a very good thing for the second tier publishers to be getting stronger. I always felt it was bad for the industry when Marvel had around half the comic book unit sales.

[drew]

Additionally, the combined market shares of IDW, Image, and Dark Horse are higher than has been seen for the 3-4-5 publishers since 2003.

like to see this number continue to climb, get them up to 25% share

[JohnMayo]

Additionally, the combined market shares of IDW, Image, and Dark Horse are higher than has been seen for the 3-4-5 publishers since 2003.

like to see this number continue to climb, get them up to 25% share

The danger with that is it could push out some of the smaller publishers. I'd like to see the mid-tier (Image, IDW, Dark Horse and Dynamite, Boom and Valiant) and the smaller publishers all do better regardless of market shares.