Hi,
I'm starting this thread as much for my own amusement as to provide a little insight into how much content is being made available in a comic book. This is spinning out of a question/conversation that started in the weekly comic spotlight thread where a book by Dark Horse Comics, Catalyst, was for lack of a better word, panned by the reviewers. The most glaring problem stated was the 'wordiness' of the book. So I bought the book and started counting and came up with the numbers which are herein repeated :
Total story pages = 28 (14 for story one, 7 each for the next two stories)
Total panels = 141.5 (the 0.5 thrown in because I couldn't resolve an insert to dialog mix)
Total Words = 3636 (1639 of dialog, 1997 of captions)
Breakdowns: 130 words per page, 26 words per panel. Story 1 = 1431 words; Story 2 = 1159 words, Story 3 = 1046 words.
I then provided the numbers for Batman #21, first part of the Zero Year storyline, as a measure of what's popular or being well reviewed. The numbers for this were for the first story in the book:
Pages : 22
Panels : 117
Words : 1940
Words per page on average : 88
Words per panel on average : 17
Panels per page on average : 5
Number of pages with 10 words or less : 7
Unfortunately for myself and my wife, I do tend to look at my return on investment in dollars and cents rather than the touchy feelly of 'how much I enjoyed it.' So I do look at things such as price per page when I think about buying a book and my current threshold has been 5 cents a page. Sounds ridiculous but when I started reading I was getting one page for 0.6 cents retail. Today it costs more than 10 cents per page, sometimes more than 20 cents per page. Talk about your runaway inflation. If it wasn't for DCBS/Instocktrades, Comixology sales, and the occasional bargain subscription, I wouldn't be reading any new books.
Anyway, I'm hoping to list about one book a week with page count and maybe the occasional comment here and there. Please feel free to comment or ignore as you see fit.
Jonah
Words, panels and pages in Books
Moderator: JohnMayo
Words, panels and pages in Books
Last edited by jonah on Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hawkeye #5 by Fraction & Pulido
The numbers to start with :
Pages: 19.5
Panels: 118
Dialog Words : 1424
Caption Words : 4
Number of Panels with 10 or less words : 87
This was part two of a two part story. Must say I really enjoyed this book. I really shouldn't, but I did. I shouldn't because the art style is not one I generally gravitate towards (fairly minimalist, heavy use of shadows to obscure detail, panels mostly devoid of background). But the art is extremely well suited to the story being told and the way it's being told. I read this in the comixology app using the guided view mode, the page being shown in full after reading the last panel. The artist tells a great story with the flow from panel to panel as well as the over all page layout. It's something to be appreciated.
On a pure dollars and cents basis, like most marvel books it falls short. The last page, which should have been the 20th, only got credit for 0.5 of a page as half of it was the credits for the story.
Adding value to the book is the fact I will re-read this. Probably a few times.
Pages: 19.5
Panels: 118
Dialog Words : 1424
Caption Words : 4
Number of Panels with 10 or less words : 87
This was part two of a two part story. Must say I really enjoyed this book. I really shouldn't, but I did. I shouldn't because the art style is not one I generally gravitate towards (fairly minimalist, heavy use of shadows to obscure detail, panels mostly devoid of background). But the art is extremely well suited to the story being told and the way it's being told. I read this in the comixology app using the guided view mode, the page being shown in full after reading the last panel. The artist tells a great story with the flow from panel to panel as well as the over all page layout. It's something to be appreciated.
On a pure dollars and cents basis, like most marvel books it falls short. The last page, which should have been the 20th, only got credit for 0.5 of a page as half of it was the credits for the story.
Adding value to the book is the fact I will re-read this. Probably a few times.
Irredeemable #1 By Mark Waid and Paul Krause
Irredeemable #1 < Read 30 July 2013> Thoughts and Data
Price : 3.99 (17 cts per page)( 5 cts per Panel )
Story Pages : 23
Panels : 87
Dialog Total : 853
Caption Total : 11
Panels <= 10 Words : 56
Panels per Page : 4
Words per Panel : 10
Wow, in retrospect I never should have bought or continued to buy this book. The price for the content simply doesn't have the ROI I expect. Or than anyone should expect. I must have really been drinking the koolade. The book was well marketed and hyped but on second reading, doesn't stand up. Short on both the story & art compared to other books; Krause's art is solid but not spectacular; the book is not a complete story segment in of itself; not much of a hook that hasn't been done before i.e. good guy gone bad. Should have taken a pass on the rest of this story.
Let me fall back on the history of this one a bit.
I had purchased this when it originally came out in 2009 and read it up through about issue 30. I had sent the issues out to be bound into a single volume and was going to pick up the remaining story in trades as they came out. Unfortunately, for me, the post office lost the package containing the comics (as well as another 200 books). At that point I ceased reading the story as I'd just lost anyway to reference the previous parts of the book.
Sometime within the last few months Comixlogy offered the Irredeemable and Incorruptible Omnibus editions for half price so I scooped both up. With the half off, they met my price to content ratio requirements and I did want to finish the story.
What was nice going back through this and studying it in a leisurely fashion was picking out of the art, things I didn't notice the first time through. Volt's left arm got removed sometime between the current time and the flashbacks, Gilgamos has a scar across his face in the current time story which isn't in the flashbacks, and a few other things which I believe are not evident until later issues. Because I'm not reading a large number of graphic stories currently, I have the time to pause and take notes as I read. I'm beginning to realize how much I missed in the panels of the stories because I was in such a hurry and the added value of reading it digitally with the enlarged panels, there much more evident.
(added note: Since the write up above, I've read up through issue 10 and did a page,word & panel count through issue 4 as that is what's supposed to be contained in the first trade)
Irredeemable Issue #2 <Price 3.99> <22 pages, 90 panels, 1469 words>
Irredeemable Issue #3 <Price 3.99> <22 pages, 102 panels, 1237 words>
Irredeemable Issue #4 <Price 3.99> <22 pages, 102 panels, 1130 words>
Given the above totals, and though I'm enjoying the story, the ROI for this still looks pretty poor. Hoping to do an older book next for comparison.
Price : 3.99 (17 cts per page)( 5 cts per Panel )
Story Pages : 23
Panels : 87
Dialog Total : 853
Caption Total : 11
Panels <= 10 Words : 56
Panels per Page : 4
Words per Panel : 10
Wow, in retrospect I never should have bought or continued to buy this book. The price for the content simply doesn't have the ROI I expect. Or than anyone should expect. I must have really been drinking the koolade. The book was well marketed and hyped but on second reading, doesn't stand up. Short on both the story & art compared to other books; Krause's art is solid but not spectacular; the book is not a complete story segment in of itself; not much of a hook that hasn't been done before i.e. good guy gone bad. Should have taken a pass on the rest of this story.
Let me fall back on the history of this one a bit.
I had purchased this when it originally came out in 2009 and read it up through about issue 30. I had sent the issues out to be bound into a single volume and was going to pick up the remaining story in trades as they came out. Unfortunately, for me, the post office lost the package containing the comics (as well as another 200 books). At that point I ceased reading the story as I'd just lost anyway to reference the previous parts of the book.
Sometime within the last few months Comixlogy offered the Irredeemable and Incorruptible Omnibus editions for half price so I scooped both up. With the half off, they met my price to content ratio requirements and I did want to finish the story.
What was nice going back through this and studying it in a leisurely fashion was picking out of the art, things I didn't notice the first time through. Volt's left arm got removed sometime between the current time and the flashbacks, Gilgamos has a scar across his face in the current time story which isn't in the flashbacks, and a few other things which I believe are not evident until later issues. Because I'm not reading a large number of graphic stories currently, I have the time to pause and take notes as I read. I'm beginning to realize how much I missed in the panels of the stories because I was in such a hurry and the added value of reading it digitally with the enlarged panels, there much more evident.
(added note: Since the write up above, I've read up through issue 10 and did a page,word & panel count through issue 4 as that is what's supposed to be contained in the first trade)
Irredeemable Issue #2 <Price 3.99> <22 pages, 90 panels, 1469 words>
Irredeemable Issue #3 <Price 3.99> <22 pages, 102 panels, 1237 words>
Irredeemable Issue #4 <Price 3.99> <22 pages, 102 panels, 1130 words>
Given the above totals, and though I'm enjoying the story, the ROI for this still looks pretty poor. Hoping to do an older book next for comparison.
DareDevil Volume 1 #1 by Lee/Everett & Sam Rosen
DareDevil #1 < Read 7 August 2013> Thoughts and Data
Price : 0.12 (0.5 cts per page)( 0.07cts per Panel )
Story Pages : 23
Panels : 151
Dialog Total : 3875
Caption Total : 1092
Panels <= 10 Words :8
Panels per Page : 6.5
Words per Panel : 33
Before I go to far, I just want to say that Sam Rosen, the Letterer, and any other letterer of the time I now consider to be the true gods, geniuses, work horses, etc of this comic book era. This comic was lettered all by hand ! (yes, complete with exclamation points). And the letterers, as well as artists, used to turn out multiple books per month. I don't know about you, but I can't remember the last time I wrote 5000 words by hand in a month, legibly ... hell, several months. This book by itself, contained more words than the first four issues of Irredeemable !! Come on, standing O for the letterers of this time.
So, comics have changed a lot since I first started reading them and revisiting this story drove that home. So much of this story is told in the captions, and less in the art. I was still reading the Irredeemable omnibus while going through this book and found a nice example. One whole page in Irredeemable was dedicated to The Plutonian sensing himself being watched and a subsequent reaction. The only word on the page was a inarticulate scream by one of the Paradigm. Whereas a single panel was given in the Daredevil book to DD sensing an approaching attack and reacting to it with captions and thought balloons filling in the gaps. I'm still pondering which of these story telling techniques is ... better. I think the prolonged sequence shown in Irredeemable is today's 'accepted method' though I'm not sure who decided it was the way to tell a story in comics. With the expanded dialog/caption approach in the older book, I'm getting a lot more story & a lot more action. With the expanded art approach, I'm getting more art ... though I'm not sure watching someone slowly turn their head or raise their eye brows across five panels is something that I care to pour over. I suspect the answer is some where in between. I do know that it took me considerably longer to read the Daredevil book than any of the others as it not only had more words, but more panels.
My ROI definitely much higher here than previous reads.
Price : 0.12 (0.5 cts per page)( 0.07cts per Panel )
Story Pages : 23
Panels : 151
Dialog Total : 3875
Caption Total : 1092
Panels <= 10 Words :8
Panels per Page : 6.5
Words per Panel : 33
Before I go to far, I just want to say that Sam Rosen, the Letterer, and any other letterer of the time I now consider to be the true gods, geniuses, work horses, etc of this comic book era. This comic was lettered all by hand ! (yes, complete with exclamation points). And the letterers, as well as artists, used to turn out multiple books per month. I don't know about you, but I can't remember the last time I wrote 5000 words by hand in a month, legibly ... hell, several months. This book by itself, contained more words than the first four issues of Irredeemable !! Come on, standing O for the letterers of this time.
So, comics have changed a lot since I first started reading them and revisiting this story drove that home. So much of this story is told in the captions, and less in the art. I was still reading the Irredeemable omnibus while going through this book and found a nice example. One whole page in Irredeemable was dedicated to The Plutonian sensing himself being watched and a subsequent reaction. The only word on the page was a inarticulate scream by one of the Paradigm. Whereas a single panel was given in the Daredevil book to DD sensing an approaching attack and reacting to it with captions and thought balloons filling in the gaps. I'm still pondering which of these story telling techniques is ... better. I think the prolonged sequence shown in Irredeemable is today's 'accepted method' though I'm not sure who decided it was the way to tell a story in comics. With the expanded dialog/caption approach in the older book, I'm getting a lot more story & a lot more action. With the expanded art approach, I'm getting more art ... though I'm not sure watching someone slowly turn their head or raise their eye brows across five panels is something that I care to pour over. I suspect the answer is some where in between. I do know that it took me considerably longer to read the Daredevil book than any of the others as it not only had more words, but more panels.
My ROI definitely much higher here than previous reads.
Re: DareDevil Volume 1 #1 by Lee/Everett & Sam Rosen
I think the slower approach with things shown over more panels can work great but requires a corresponding increase in the page count so each installment still delivers that same amount of story as comics used to. People generally complain that spending a page with someone doing nothing but walking down the street not because of how it was told but because it prevent more story from being told in that space. Since space is finite in modern comics, the slower storytelling style directly results in a lower ROI with less story content per issue. That is what bothers people.jonah wrote:I'm still pondering which of these story telling techniques is ... better. I think the prolonged sequence shown in Irredeemable is today's 'accepted method' though I'm not sure who decided it was the way to tell a story in comics. With the expanded dialog/caption approach in the older book, I'm getting a lot more story & a lot more action. With the expanded art approach, I'm getting more art ... though I'm not sure watching someone slowly turn their head or raise their eye brows across five panels is something that I care to pour over.
Your comment about more panels increasing story content as well as more words doing it is an excellent point.
I'm finding your posts here to be very interesting and insightful about aspects of comic book storytelling that I think a lot of us (myself included) don't think about often enough.
Re: Words, panels and pages in Books
Just a word of appreciation for the analysis that's going on here. I'm really enjoying this look at what people are finding satisfying and worthy of their purchasing pounds/dollars and think having analysis such as this really can tie into discussions over the sales figures etc., because I believe value for money especially for single issues over the trade is a key factor in the purchasing levels of existing comic book buyers.
The origin of this was the discussion over word count in a book and I would say i'm torn. I know as I got older I demanded more and more from comics the 'show me, don't tell me' approach similar to in other media such as films and would often look at a panel and feel that dialogue pre-figuring what action a character was going to take was unnecessary and feeling that a lot of times a page could have been silent and got the message across at least as well. However, I will equally admit now that I often find a book with very little dialogue/text can be whizzed through quite quickly and I am left at the end of the single issue feeling a lack of value for money when I have paid £2.70 ($4.17) to get a single issue and I get through it in no time at all. Therefore I suppose the ideal issue for me would be one that is quite wordy, but where this dialogue is necessary for the furthering of the story or character motivation, but where the action can also speak for itself. Something like Criminal would fit into this category, but I accept that this is a specific type of book and maybe in some superhero stories where they are aiming at a wider audience this can be harder to achieve.
The origin of this was the discussion over word count in a book and I would say i'm torn. I know as I got older I demanded more and more from comics the 'show me, don't tell me' approach similar to in other media such as films and would often look at a panel and feel that dialogue pre-figuring what action a character was going to take was unnecessary and feeling that a lot of times a page could have been silent and got the message across at least as well. However, I will equally admit now that I often find a book with very little dialogue/text can be whizzed through quite quickly and I am left at the end of the single issue feeling a lack of value for money when I have paid £2.70 ($4.17) to get a single issue and I get through it in no time at all. Therefore I suppose the ideal issue for me would be one that is quite wordy, but where this dialogue is necessary for the furthering of the story or character motivation, but where the action can also speak for itself. Something like Criminal would fit into this category, but I accept that this is a specific type of book and maybe in some superhero stories where they are aiming at a wider audience this can be harder to achieve.
-
DNArington
- Fan
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:48 pm
- Contact:
Re: Words, panels and pages in Books
One thing I liked about Age of Ultron was that it showed you every tiny detail. (Tony Stark lays his hand on Wolverine, Wolverine looks back, then they start talking.) It made it a slow moving series, but it gave it a cinematic feel to me and I thought that was kind of cool, but at the same time when I got to the end of each issue it did feel lacking in story because of it.
This is an interesting look at comics, that I haven't really thought much about. Good work, Jonah!
This is an interesting look at comics, that I haven't really thought much about. Good work, Jonah!
Check out my podcast, Helix Reviews, for thoughts, opinions, and reviews of all kinds of media from a Christian geek perspective!
Subscribe on iTunes here: https://itunes.apple.com/ua/podcast/hel ... d518070184
Subscribe on iTunes here: https://itunes.apple.com/ua/podcast/hel ... d518070184
New Avengers (Vol 1) #1 Bendis / Finch
New Avengers #1 (2005) < Read 12 August 2013> Thoughts and Data
Price : 2.25 (10 cts per page)( 2+ cts per Panel )
Story Pages : 23
Panels : 95
Dialog Total : 1139
Caption Total : 77
Panels <= 10 Words :56
Panels per Page : 4
Words per Panel : 50
Thought I'd look at a Bendis story as he's considered a 'master' of the decompressed storyline. And looking at this story is retrospect, his title appears to be well deserved.
Before I start highlighting what I consider the negatives, I'd like to say when I originally read this series, I enjoyed it a lot. Felt there was a lot of character development and insight which is generally what I enjoy in any book. Also, when I read this, I was still an Avengers 'junkie.' If a book had the word Avengers on it, it was pretty much a guaranteed buy for me. However, looking back now ....
For a first time reader, this book would have been impenetrable. It relies heavily on the reader knowing the characters and their relationships. I can give Spider-man a pass as he really is fairly ubiquitious even for non-readers but Luke Cage, Jessica Drew, Matt Murdock not so much. Captain America gets a pass but while his image may be known, non-readers may not be aware of his character traits. Foggy Nelson pretty much plays the part of Lou Costello thus doesn't need much explanation.
Bendis's dialog is sharp, witty, and weaves in and out between Finch's art. Or you get lot's of Dialog, followed by none with big art, followed by lots more dialog. Each piece, art & dialog, gets center stage on various panels/pages. On the words side, you get four (4) pages containing 640 of the words in the story. That's more than half for the book. They are characterized as follows:
Page 2) Intro's the villain of the piece and provides his motivation
page 5) Sets the location & introduces four of the protagonists (luke, matt, jessica,Foggy)
page 8 ) Has the most words (267) and is spent talking about how safe the prison is
page 9) Things go wrong, mostly fun banter
Interestingly as I read the last two pages, the cliff hanger, which should have had me wanting to come back, wasn't very effective. At all. ...
I know this thread is primarily about Words but I do need to talk about the art in this book as a number of things jumped out at me. I read this both in comic book form and digitally so I got two distinct ways of looking at it.
* Finch's art. Love his money shots but his sequential story telling leaves a lot to be desired. This is blantantly obvious when reading it using the guided view mode in Comixology's app.
* There were four double page spreads in this book. I felt three of them were wasted given the content contained in each and could have easily been condensed to one page instead. While the shot of the big blast rocking the raft was nice, it could have easily been done on a full page instead of two, or better yet a half page with the POV pulled back some.
* There are 5 panels that are nothing but black ink.
* One page, ten , had 4 panels, same art with different layers in photoshop turned on/off.
* A few other places in the book the same piece of art is used with dialog removed or a small change in size, lighting, or added element.
* Lots of heavy inks used throughout which was generally used to good effect but also kept the detail out of most backgrounds.
* On page 13 there are two notes attached to the refrigerator in the first panel. In the paper comic they are almost impossible to read without the aid of a magnifying glass. In the digital book they are very readable: "Call Marvel ASAP" & "Dave Walters Called"
* In one panel Electro has the Belt with Big Pockets on, in another, missing.
The ROI on this book actually turns out to be fairly poor (not as bad as Irredeemable #1). I really enjoyed Bendis's run on this series as a whole, but this piece when looked at in isolation, not so much.
Price : 2.25 (10 cts per page)( 2+ cts per Panel )
Story Pages : 23
Panels : 95
Dialog Total : 1139
Caption Total : 77
Panels <= 10 Words :56
Panels per Page : 4
Words per Panel : 50
Thought I'd look at a Bendis story as he's considered a 'master' of the decompressed storyline. And looking at this story is retrospect, his title appears to be well deserved.
Before I start highlighting what I consider the negatives, I'd like to say when I originally read this series, I enjoyed it a lot. Felt there was a lot of character development and insight which is generally what I enjoy in any book. Also, when I read this, I was still an Avengers 'junkie.' If a book had the word Avengers on it, it was pretty much a guaranteed buy for me. However, looking back now ....
For a first time reader, this book would have been impenetrable. It relies heavily on the reader knowing the characters and their relationships. I can give Spider-man a pass as he really is fairly ubiquitious even for non-readers but Luke Cage, Jessica Drew, Matt Murdock not so much. Captain America gets a pass but while his image may be known, non-readers may not be aware of his character traits. Foggy Nelson pretty much plays the part of Lou Costello thus doesn't need much explanation.
Bendis's dialog is sharp, witty, and weaves in and out between Finch's art. Or you get lot's of Dialog, followed by none with big art, followed by lots more dialog. Each piece, art & dialog, gets center stage on various panels/pages. On the words side, you get four (4) pages containing 640 of the words in the story. That's more than half for the book. They are characterized as follows:
Page 2) Intro's the villain of the piece and provides his motivation
page 5) Sets the location & introduces four of the protagonists (luke, matt, jessica,Foggy)
page 8 ) Has the most words (267) and is spent talking about how safe the prison is
page 9) Things go wrong, mostly fun banter
Interestingly as I read the last two pages, the cliff hanger, which should have had me wanting to come back, wasn't very effective. At all. ...
I know this thread is primarily about Words but I do need to talk about the art in this book as a number of things jumped out at me. I read this both in comic book form and digitally so I got two distinct ways of looking at it.
* Finch's art. Love his money shots but his sequential story telling leaves a lot to be desired. This is blantantly obvious when reading it using the guided view mode in Comixology's app.
* There were four double page spreads in this book. I felt three of them were wasted given the content contained in each and could have easily been condensed to one page instead. While the shot of the big blast rocking the raft was nice, it could have easily been done on a full page instead of two, or better yet a half page with the POV pulled back some.
* There are 5 panels that are nothing but black ink.
* One page, ten , had 4 panels, same art with different layers in photoshop turned on/off.
* A few other places in the book the same piece of art is used with dialog removed or a small change in size, lighting, or added element.
* Lots of heavy inks used throughout which was generally used to good effect but also kept the detail out of most backgrounds.
* On page 13 there are two notes attached to the refrigerator in the first panel. In the paper comic they are almost impossible to read without the aid of a magnifying glass. In the digital book they are very readable: "Call Marvel ASAP" & "Dave Walters Called"
* In one panel Electro has the Belt with Big Pockets on, in another, missing.
The ROI on this book actually turns out to be fairly poor (not as bad as Irredeemable #1). I really enjoyed Bendis's run on this series as a whole, but this piece when looked at in isolation, not so much.
DareDevil (1998) #4 Smith/Quesada/Palmiotti/Agraphiotis
DareDevil #4 (Volume 2 1998) < Read 18 August 2013> Thoughts and Data
Writer : Kevin Smith
Artist : Joe Quesada
Inker : Jimmy Palmiotti
Letter : Liz Agraphiotis
Price : 2.50 (11 cts per page)( 2 cts per Panel )
Story Pages : 22
Panels : 131
Dialog Total : 2784
Caption Total : 274
Panels <= 10 Words :52
Panels per Page : 6
Words per Panel : 23
Words per Page : 134
Was read Digitally using Google play on 10 inch iPad. <for the record, I don't recommend buying graphic novels from google until they enhance their reader. You only get a full page view w/no magnification available thus making it smaller than a standard comic.>
First time I've read this story and I'm beginning to understand why Kevin Smith has been able to live on it. It's wonderful so far. As much for the story telling as for the art being used to tell it.
This read great as a single issue. You get a quick outline of Daredevil's origin, where the last issue left off, and an update of the entire story to date. It's all done through captions, dialog, and inner monologue that flows within the telling of the story thus not feeling forced or worse, taking you out of the story.
The comic itself is a 'meaty' read but a darn good one. You get action, character development, and the narrative is moved along. The actual words per page/panel feels like more as three of the pages are full page splashes and one page is pretty much full page with small inset panels. Like a good splash pages, all of these have few words (11 or less). Within the remaining 19 pages, fifteen of them exceed one hundred words and four of those exceed two hundred words. And they don't feel 'wordy.' They just flow and make you want to turn to the next page.
Quickly on the Art. Nice though Quesada's manga like eyes sometimes stood out too much. The layouts were nicely designed. Typically a single panel acted as the background for the entire page. You got plenty of art without it feeling too busy. Palmiotti's inks were also well used. Sharp were warranted, heavy when needed to set a mood.
Think this is the high water mark so far for me in ROI.
Writer : Kevin Smith
Artist : Joe Quesada
Inker : Jimmy Palmiotti
Letter : Liz Agraphiotis
Price : 2.50 (11 cts per page)( 2 cts per Panel )
Story Pages : 22
Panels : 131
Dialog Total : 2784
Caption Total : 274
Panels <= 10 Words :52
Panels per Page : 6
Words per Panel : 23
Words per Page : 134
Was read Digitally using Google play on 10 inch iPad. <for the record, I don't recommend buying graphic novels from google until they enhance their reader. You only get a full page view w/no magnification available thus making it smaller than a standard comic.>
First time I've read this story and I'm beginning to understand why Kevin Smith has been able to live on it. It's wonderful so far. As much for the story telling as for the art being used to tell it.
This read great as a single issue. You get a quick outline of Daredevil's origin, where the last issue left off, and an update of the entire story to date. It's all done through captions, dialog, and inner monologue that flows within the telling of the story thus not feeling forced or worse, taking you out of the story.
The comic itself is a 'meaty' read but a darn good one. You get action, character development, and the narrative is moved along. The actual words per page/panel feels like more as three of the pages are full page splashes and one page is pretty much full page with small inset panels. Like a good splash pages, all of these have few words (11 or less). Within the remaining 19 pages, fifteen of them exceed one hundred words and four of those exceed two hundred words. And they don't feel 'wordy.' They just flow and make you want to turn to the next page.
Quickly on the Art. Nice though Quesada's manga like eyes sometimes stood out too much. The layouts were nicely designed. Typically a single panel acted as the background for the entire page. You got plenty of art without it feeling too busy. Palmiotti's inks were also well used. Sharp were warranted, heavy when needed to set a mood.
Think this is the high water mark so far for me in ROI.
FF #17 (2011) The Roommate Experiment
FF #17 (Volume 1 2011) < Read 25 August 2013> Thoughts and Data
Issue Title "The roommate Experiment"
Writer : Johnathan Hickman
Artist : Nick Dragotta
Inker : Nick Dragotta
Letter : Clayton Cowles
Price : 2.99 (15 cts per page)( 3.4 cts per Panel )
Story Pages : 20
Panels : 87
Dialog Total : 958
Caption Total : 121 (+80 words in the prologue)
Panels <= 10 Words :49
Panels per Page : 4
Words per Panel : 12.4
Words per Page : 54
Story Time Span: Within a 24 hour time period.
Was read Digitally using Comixology's app on a 10 inch iPad. I consider this the current Mercedes Benz on digital apps to read a comic with. Used the Guided feature mode with full page view at the completion of each page.
This was a filler story for the series. Written for yucks and nothing more. The majority of the captions were notes written by Peter Parker to himself. The dialog itself was fairly snappy though I think in order to really appreciate it, you need to have some of the history of Johnny & Peter's relationship as well as a knowledge of where each of them were in their lives at this point. There is no 'super hero' moments in the book as this is strictly about the two sharing an apartment. I suspect some of the humor was lost on me as I don't have a strong recollection of the background on some of the supporting cast. The prologue page provides 80 words of background to catch up the lapsed reader. I don't think the prologue would help the first time reader get a handle on what is occurring beyond the two characters not being compatible roommates.
I can't say I didn't enjoy the story. But I can say that if I'd paid full price for it, I'd definitely have felt cheated. This kind of story winds up in a quarter bin at some point and will never graduate beyond that as nothing,... absolutely nothing, occurs which moves the narrative for the series along.
At 54 words per page you will chew right through this and three of the pages have zero or a single word on them. The average of four panels per page makes the book feel short as well. And while Dragotta's art is competent and fits the story well, his panel design layouts are very pedestrian making the reader more dependent on the story for entertainment rather than the art.
One other observation. This story is told from Peter Parker's point of View and feels much more like a Spider-man book than an FF book. So much so, that when I flipped back to the cover to get the cover data, I had forgotten I was reading an FF story. It made me feel like I should be reading more Spider-man, not FF.
While a number of ongoing readers would probably enjoy this little slice of life type of story, it registers poorly for someone picking up the book for the first time. ROI in my humble opinion, poor.
Issue Title "The roommate Experiment"
Writer : Johnathan Hickman
Artist : Nick Dragotta
Inker : Nick Dragotta
Letter : Clayton Cowles
Price : 2.99 (15 cts per page)( 3.4 cts per Panel )
Story Pages : 20
Panels : 87
Dialog Total : 958
Caption Total : 121 (+80 words in the prologue)
Panels <= 10 Words :49
Panels per Page : 4
Words per Panel : 12.4
Words per Page : 54
Story Time Span: Within a 24 hour time period.
Was read Digitally using Comixology's app on a 10 inch iPad. I consider this the current Mercedes Benz on digital apps to read a comic with. Used the Guided feature mode with full page view at the completion of each page.
This was a filler story for the series. Written for yucks and nothing more. The majority of the captions were notes written by Peter Parker to himself. The dialog itself was fairly snappy though I think in order to really appreciate it, you need to have some of the history of Johnny & Peter's relationship as well as a knowledge of where each of them were in their lives at this point. There is no 'super hero' moments in the book as this is strictly about the two sharing an apartment. I suspect some of the humor was lost on me as I don't have a strong recollection of the background on some of the supporting cast. The prologue page provides 80 words of background to catch up the lapsed reader. I don't think the prologue would help the first time reader get a handle on what is occurring beyond the two characters not being compatible roommates.
I can't say I didn't enjoy the story. But I can say that if I'd paid full price for it, I'd definitely have felt cheated. This kind of story winds up in a quarter bin at some point and will never graduate beyond that as nothing,... absolutely nothing, occurs which moves the narrative for the series along.
At 54 words per page you will chew right through this and three of the pages have zero or a single word on them. The average of four panels per page makes the book feel short as well. And while Dragotta's art is competent and fits the story well, his panel design layouts are very pedestrian making the reader more dependent on the story for entertainment rather than the art.
One other observation. This story is told from Peter Parker's point of View and feels much more like a Spider-man book than an FF book. So much so, that when I flipped back to the cover to get the cover data, I had forgotten I was reading an FF story. It made me feel like I should be reading more Spider-man, not FF.
While a number of ongoing readers would probably enjoy this little slice of life type of story, it registers poorly for someone picking up the book for the first time. ROI in my humble opinion, poor.
Re: FF #17 (2011) The Roommate Experiment
I agree with your assessment of the issue. While I enjoyed it, I also have been reading almost all of the adventures of both characters for decades. If was a filler issue that is easily forgotten and not one worth seeking out as a back issue.jonah wrote:FF #17 (Volume 1 2011) < Read 25 August 2013> Thoughts and Data
...
This was a filler story for the series. Written for yucks and nothing more.
...
I can't say I didn't enjoy the story. But I can say that if I'd paid full price for it, I'd definitely have felt cheated. This kind of story winds up in a quarter bin at some point and will never graduate beyond that as nothing,... absolutely nothing, occurs which moves the narrative for the series along.
At 54 words per page you will chew right through this and three of the pages have zero or a single word on them. The average of four panels per page makes the book feel short as well.
...
One other observation. This story is told from Peter Parker's point of View and feels much more like a Spider-man book than an FF book. So much so, that when I flipped back to the cover to get the cover data, I had forgotten I was reading an FF story. It made me feel like I should be reading more Spider-man, not FF.
...
ROI in my humble opinion, poor.
I'm curious how an issue like Astro City #2 would measure up to this sort of examination. It was one of the best comics I'd read in ages and seemed to be very rich in story content.
Watchman #1
Watchman #1 < Read 1 Sept 2013>
Cover Date : September 1986
Issue Title "At Midnight, All the Agents..."
Writer : Alan Moore
Artist : Dave Gibbons
Inker : Dave Gibbons
Letter : Dave Gibbons
Cover Price : 1.50 (4.7 cts per page) ( .75 cts per Panel )
Story Pages : 32 (26 with art, 6 of text (not included in count))
Panels : 198
Dialog Total : 2959 (additional 3000+ words in backup text which supports the story but isn't necessary to enjoy the comic.)
Caption Total : 44
Panels <= 10 Words :90
Panels per Page : 7.6
Words per Panel : 15
Words per Page : 116
Story Time Span: Roughly a 24 hour time period (12 - 13th October, 1985).
Was read digitally using the Kindle App on a 10 inch iPad. The kindle app on the iPad ranks behind Comixology's app for reading comics on a tablet. It does provide a panel by panel reading method however the panel does not blow up to the full size of the tablet screen. For the page layout technique in the watchmen book, this provides for a more than adequate experience as all dialogue and action takes place within the panel lines. There were a few places I wish I could have enlarged the art further to take in more detail.
I believe that more than enough people have heaped praise upon this title so I won't bore you too much with mine. Okay, some.
I've read this story several times and it really doesn't get stale. I'm a big fan of noir and this story, told from Rorschach's point of view, is very much of that genre.
Thanks to detail of Gibbon's art, each reading brings about more 'aha moments' as little subtle details are found. As I believe I've mentioned before, the digital panel by panel reading brings a much more focused reading of the material and helps show how the artist tells the story. And I believe it is the telling of the story, not so much the story itself, that makes this book the classic that it is.
I wish more stories were told using this method of story telling. The 3 by X grid layouts where both the writer and the artist are able to show off their skills. While the book might be considered 'word heavy' by today's story telling style, there are still four basically silent pages in the story where the art is used to show Rorschach investigating Edward Blake's apartment and the discovery of the suit in the hidden closet compartment. The absolute quite in the panel's bring you as a reader into the story as you must follow the implied movements, gestures, and body language to 'read' what is going on. This is often missed in many of today's comics due to either limited space, short-coming's in the artist's story telling ability, or the writer feeling a need to explain what is going on through dialogue or captions.
As a number one issue, this is superlative example of what should be accomplished in an opening issue. All the characters are introduced, the relationships and conflicts of the characters are established though not embellished upon and the problem to be solved is laid out. When you close the book, you've gotten a good taste of what you'll be following and more than enough story points to grasp on to but needing more detail to feel satisfied.
For me personally this story gets better with each reading. ROI 10+.
Cover Date : September 1986
Issue Title "At Midnight, All the Agents..."
Writer : Alan Moore
Artist : Dave Gibbons
Inker : Dave Gibbons
Letter : Dave Gibbons
Cover Price : 1.50 (4.7 cts per page) ( .75 cts per Panel )
Story Pages : 32 (26 with art, 6 of text (not included in count))
Panels : 198
Dialog Total : 2959 (additional 3000+ words in backup text which supports the story but isn't necessary to enjoy the comic.)
Caption Total : 44
Panels <= 10 Words :90
Panels per Page : 7.6
Words per Panel : 15
Words per Page : 116
Story Time Span: Roughly a 24 hour time period (12 - 13th October, 1985).
Was read digitally using the Kindle App on a 10 inch iPad. The kindle app on the iPad ranks behind Comixology's app for reading comics on a tablet. It does provide a panel by panel reading method however the panel does not blow up to the full size of the tablet screen. For the page layout technique in the watchmen book, this provides for a more than adequate experience as all dialogue and action takes place within the panel lines. There were a few places I wish I could have enlarged the art further to take in more detail.
I believe that more than enough people have heaped praise upon this title so I won't bore you too much with mine. Okay, some.
I've read this story several times and it really doesn't get stale. I'm a big fan of noir and this story, told from Rorschach's point of view, is very much of that genre.
Thanks to detail of Gibbon's art, each reading brings about more 'aha moments' as little subtle details are found. As I believe I've mentioned before, the digital panel by panel reading brings a much more focused reading of the material and helps show how the artist tells the story. And I believe it is the telling of the story, not so much the story itself, that makes this book the classic that it is.
I wish more stories were told using this method of story telling. The 3 by X grid layouts where both the writer and the artist are able to show off their skills. While the book might be considered 'word heavy' by today's story telling style, there are still four basically silent pages in the story where the art is used to show Rorschach investigating Edward Blake's apartment and the discovery of the suit in the hidden closet compartment. The absolute quite in the panel's bring you as a reader into the story as you must follow the implied movements, gestures, and body language to 'read' what is going on. This is often missed in many of today's comics due to either limited space, short-coming's in the artist's story telling ability, or the writer feeling a need to explain what is going on through dialogue or captions.
As a number one issue, this is superlative example of what should be accomplished in an opening issue. All the characters are introduced, the relationships and conflicts of the characters are established though not embellished upon and the problem to be solved is laid out. When you close the book, you've gotten a good taste of what you'll be following and more than enough story points to grasp on to but needing more detail to feel satisfied.
For me personally this story gets better with each reading. ROI 10+.
The Manhattan Projects #1
The Manhattan Projects #1 < Read 8 Sept 2013>
Cover Date : March 2012
Issue Title 'Infinite Oppenheimers'
Writer : Jonathan Hickman
Artist : Nick Pitarra
Letter : Rus Wooton
Cover Price : 3.50 (15.9 cts per page) ( 3.9 cts per Panel )
Story Pages : 26 (22 with art/text, 4, primarily blank, with quoted text (not included in count))
Panels : 89
Dialog Total : 938
Caption Total : 698 (includes narrative story telling)
Panels <= 10 Words :34
Panels per Page : 4
Words per Panel : 18
Words per Page : 74
Story Time Span: Roughly a 2 hour time period. 6 flashback pages told in narrative form provided a background for the character through various parts of his life.
Was read digitally using the Comixology app on a 10 inch iPad in both guided and full page mode.
This is my second Hickman book for counting/review though the first of a creator owned property. Interestingly, to me, I remember enjoying this the first time I read it but not so much this time. While I found the read to be 'okay' this time, It never seemed to ascend beyond that. Upon further introspection, I realized that as much as I loved the concept of this story, the actual telling/visualization of it was lacking.
First, I'm not sure I've read another story where upper and lower case lettering was used. Probably have but as I was reading this, I noticed it felt almost like reading a paper instead of a visual comic where the letters jump (and need to) out at you. While it makes for very clean text, it provides a certain sterility I'm not used to in any comic. None of the characters seemed to develop a 'voice' with this technique. Granted, there were only two characters front and center for the length of the book, but still, the texture of the letters lent nothing to them.
On a relative basis, the word count is close to par with what I'm coming to think of as today's 'norm' for words. A number south of 2000 but greater than 1500. However, because the story was told with very few panels per page, it had the effect of giving a lot of story as you moved through the book. On a story reading basis, it feels good that way. On the down side, you have very few panels, so you get through the story relatively quick and given the short time span the story covers, it feels light.
The art, I feel, didn't necessarily help Hickman's story either. While there was sufficient detail in the work, I'm not sure the right details were included. There was also a splash page, page 15, which had some problems with perspective relative to the number of bodies/robots/characters in it. In some area's of the layout, it was almost like looking at an M.C. Escher drawing that was also executed incorrectly. While most of the art did not have effect on me, the times that it did dropped me out of the story.
I've enjoyed Hickman's work very much on the Fantastic Four and FF but the two stories I've read outside the Marvel Universe, this one and Red wind, have been long on concept for me but failing in the actual telling. Perhaps this story grows more enjoyable as character development & plot lines thicken, but as a first issue, this failed to get me to come back. I think I would probably enjoying Hickman's writing more if there was more narrative with fewer supporting graphics i.e. the old magazine style were you got a few graphics mixed in with the story but the words were what you were paying for. I felt the same about the Red Wing story. This could be simply that the idea/story he is telling is beyond being conveyed in pictures, the artists's inability to properly convey what's going on, or my own inability to see what is happening.
ROI for this issue was initially a 7, but falls to a 2 upon rereading.
Cover Date : March 2012
Issue Title 'Infinite Oppenheimers'
Writer : Jonathan Hickman
Artist : Nick Pitarra
Letter : Rus Wooton
Cover Price : 3.50 (15.9 cts per page) ( 3.9 cts per Panel )
Story Pages : 26 (22 with art/text, 4, primarily blank, with quoted text (not included in count))
Panels : 89
Dialog Total : 938
Caption Total : 698 (includes narrative story telling)
Panels <= 10 Words :34
Panels per Page : 4
Words per Panel : 18
Words per Page : 74
Story Time Span: Roughly a 2 hour time period. 6 flashback pages told in narrative form provided a background for the character through various parts of his life.
Was read digitally using the Comixology app on a 10 inch iPad in both guided and full page mode.
This is my second Hickman book for counting/review though the first of a creator owned property. Interestingly, to me, I remember enjoying this the first time I read it but not so much this time. While I found the read to be 'okay' this time, It never seemed to ascend beyond that. Upon further introspection, I realized that as much as I loved the concept of this story, the actual telling/visualization of it was lacking.
First, I'm not sure I've read another story where upper and lower case lettering was used. Probably have but as I was reading this, I noticed it felt almost like reading a paper instead of a visual comic where the letters jump (and need to) out at you. While it makes for very clean text, it provides a certain sterility I'm not used to in any comic. None of the characters seemed to develop a 'voice' with this technique. Granted, there were only two characters front and center for the length of the book, but still, the texture of the letters lent nothing to them.
On a relative basis, the word count is close to par with what I'm coming to think of as today's 'norm' for words. A number south of 2000 but greater than 1500. However, because the story was told with very few panels per page, it had the effect of giving a lot of story as you moved through the book. On a story reading basis, it feels good that way. On the down side, you have very few panels, so you get through the story relatively quick and given the short time span the story covers, it feels light.
The art, I feel, didn't necessarily help Hickman's story either. While there was sufficient detail in the work, I'm not sure the right details were included. There was also a splash page, page 15, which had some problems with perspective relative to the number of bodies/robots/characters in it. In some area's of the layout, it was almost like looking at an M.C. Escher drawing that was also executed incorrectly. While most of the art did not have effect on me, the times that it did dropped me out of the story.
I've enjoyed Hickman's work very much on the Fantastic Four and FF but the two stories I've read outside the Marvel Universe, this one and Red wind, have been long on concept for me but failing in the actual telling. Perhaps this story grows more enjoyable as character development & plot lines thicken, but as a first issue, this failed to get me to come back. I think I would probably enjoying Hickman's writing more if there was more narrative with fewer supporting graphics i.e. the old magazine style were you got a few graphics mixed in with the story but the words were what you were paying for. I felt the same about the Red Wing story. This could be simply that the idea/story he is telling is beyond being conveyed in pictures, the artists's inability to properly convey what's going on, or my own inability to see what is happening.
ROI for this issue was initially a 7, but falls to a 2 upon rereading.
Re: The Manhattan Projects #1
The Ultimate Universe uses mixed case. It works fine but does feel a bit different at first. Then I got used to it and don't even notice it.jonah wrote:First, I'm not sure I've read another story where upper and lower case lettering was used.
I find it interesting how a second reading can really change an opinion on a comic. I've had similar experiences where I recall really enjoying a comic the first time around but then on a second reading at a later date having a hard time understanding why I'd initially enjoyed the comic so much. That doesn't happen too often for me but I have had it happen.
Astro City (2013) #2
Astro City #2 < Read 14 Sept 2013>
Cover Date : September 2013
Issue Title 'Welcome to HumanoGlobal'
Writer : Kurt Busiek
Artist : Brent Eric Anderson
Letter : John Roshell & Jimmy Betancourt of Comiccraft
Cover Price : 3.99 (16.6 cts per page) ( 4.4 cts per Panel )
Story Pages : 24
Panels : 90
Dialog Total : 2538
Caption Total : 56 (The help wanted ad on first page)
Panels <= 10 Words : 10
Panels per Page : 3.75
Words per Panel : 28.8
Words per Page : 108
Story Time Span: At least a period of 3 - 6 months, perhaps nearly a year.
Was read digitally using the Comixology app on a 10 inch iPad in both guided and full page mode.
After listening to John 'gush' about how good this book was I felt I needed to read it as well as gather some numbers on it. This is only the second Astro City book I've read and was only very very vaguely familiar with the concept of the book. (The joy & curse of no longer following the previews or news sites.) I've primarily considered it a blessing as each read is taken at face value.
Must say I can pretty much gush along with John though perhaps for different reasons. More about that in a bit, first some notes about the words.
This was a very satisfying read. Even though there were only 90 panels in the book, they were filled with story both in the narrative and with the pictures. This book had one more panel that the previously reviewed Manhattan Projects yet took at least twice the time to read. And the second and third reads were just as enjoyable. The author and artist wasted absolutely no space between the covers.
The story is told from the perspective of a single character, Marella Cowper, with a large part of the story being told in a narrative form. Dialog mixes in and out of the story/narrative seamlessly. At the end of the comic you are very much invested in this character's life and the story being played out in the book. Furthermore, you've been introduced to her co-workers, her supervisor, her place of work, her home life, how she spends her off time, as well as glimpsing her motivations and desires. You've also been briefly introduced to the superheroes that inhabit this world, a number of the villains, and enough locations, cities & countries to get a basic understanding of the rules of this universe. One Comic. 90 panels. If you consider most mainstream comics/stories often take over a year or more to get this far, you get a real appreciation for Kurt Busiek's story telling. You get fed a Who's who worth of data in a very enjoyable story.
Interestingly, the letterer's are also credited with lettering & DESIGN. Not sure what the 'design' aspect they get credit for but the layout of this book is great. It reads and visual tracks both in full page and guided modes. The lettering, as you'd expected, doesn't get in the way of the story and the dialog is laid out such that it flows from panel to panel as well as within panels.
The art is sharp, detailed, and doesn't drop off any where. Was particularly impressed with how well the artist created the high tech effect within the operations center in ever panel. In other words he wasn't just invested in the money shots of the heroes; every single character got full attention to detail. Reading in the digital mode, blowing up the panels, you can see how little details are brought out. There's a stadium scene with lots of people, and many many many of those people are individually draw. There's also a scene in the cafeteria where a character is drawn simply as background with their back turned to the major scene being played out. They're at a table and to one side is a plate, hardly visible, with the utensils on it. If you blow up the panel, you see the knife, fork, and spoon each individually drawn. Not necessarily highly detailed, but each utensil got individual treatment instead of simply an impressionistic rendering of them.
Gotta give this an ROI of 10 as the writing and art in both volume as well as quality were so far above the norm. At least for the time being. And the company, writer, artist also while get an ROI on their effort as this one story will have me going back for the previous trades as well as those going forward. Or maybe the digital comics. All the names associated with the book will also get 'benefits of the doubt' on other books they may have had a hand in.
Easily a book that could and should be recommended without hesitation.
(Thanks John)
Cover Date : September 2013
Issue Title 'Welcome to HumanoGlobal'
Writer : Kurt Busiek
Artist : Brent Eric Anderson
Letter : John Roshell & Jimmy Betancourt of Comiccraft
Cover Price : 3.99 (16.6 cts per page) ( 4.4 cts per Panel )
Story Pages : 24
Panels : 90
Dialog Total : 2538
Caption Total : 56 (The help wanted ad on first page)
Panels <= 10 Words : 10
Panels per Page : 3.75
Words per Panel : 28.8
Words per Page : 108
Story Time Span: At least a period of 3 - 6 months, perhaps nearly a year.
Was read digitally using the Comixology app on a 10 inch iPad in both guided and full page mode.
After listening to John 'gush' about how good this book was I felt I needed to read it as well as gather some numbers on it. This is only the second Astro City book I've read and was only very very vaguely familiar with the concept of the book. (The joy & curse of no longer following the previews or news sites.) I've primarily considered it a blessing as each read is taken at face value.
Must say I can pretty much gush along with John though perhaps for different reasons. More about that in a bit, first some notes about the words.
This was a very satisfying read. Even though there were only 90 panels in the book, they were filled with story both in the narrative and with the pictures. This book had one more panel that the previously reviewed Manhattan Projects yet took at least twice the time to read. And the second and third reads were just as enjoyable. The author and artist wasted absolutely no space between the covers.
The story is told from the perspective of a single character, Marella Cowper, with a large part of the story being told in a narrative form. Dialog mixes in and out of the story/narrative seamlessly. At the end of the comic you are very much invested in this character's life and the story being played out in the book. Furthermore, you've been introduced to her co-workers, her supervisor, her place of work, her home life, how she spends her off time, as well as glimpsing her motivations and desires. You've also been briefly introduced to the superheroes that inhabit this world, a number of the villains, and enough locations, cities & countries to get a basic understanding of the rules of this universe. One Comic. 90 panels. If you consider most mainstream comics/stories often take over a year or more to get this far, you get a real appreciation for Kurt Busiek's story telling. You get fed a Who's who worth of data in a very enjoyable story.
Interestingly, the letterer's are also credited with lettering & DESIGN. Not sure what the 'design' aspect they get credit for but the layout of this book is great. It reads and visual tracks both in full page and guided modes. The lettering, as you'd expected, doesn't get in the way of the story and the dialog is laid out such that it flows from panel to panel as well as within panels.
The art is sharp, detailed, and doesn't drop off any where. Was particularly impressed with how well the artist created the high tech effect within the operations center in ever panel. In other words he wasn't just invested in the money shots of the heroes; every single character got full attention to detail. Reading in the digital mode, blowing up the panels, you can see how little details are brought out. There's a stadium scene with lots of people, and many many many of those people are individually draw. There's also a scene in the cafeteria where a character is drawn simply as background with their back turned to the major scene being played out. They're at a table and to one side is a plate, hardly visible, with the utensils on it. If you blow up the panel, you see the knife, fork, and spoon each individually drawn. Not necessarily highly detailed, but each utensil got individual treatment instead of simply an impressionistic rendering of them.
Gotta give this an ROI of 10 as the writing and art in both volume as well as quality were so far above the norm. At least for the time being. And the company, writer, artist also while get an ROI on their effort as this one story will have me going back for the previous trades as well as those going forward. Or maybe the digital comics. All the names associated with the book will also get 'benefits of the doubt' on other books they may have had a hand in.
Easily a book that could and should be recommended without hesitation.
(Thanks John)