Avengers movie and the comic book stigma

[abysslord]

So Avengers breaks 200 million in 3 days, and by some survey I think they said around 90% of the people liked it. If you ask people if they're a nerd for going to see the film, they'd probably say no. If you ask them if they're a nerd for reading an Avengers book, the answer would be yes.

How can comic book companies erase this stigma that comics are childish and nerdy? Or can they? I think most people still think every comic has corny dialogue or panders to kids.

I realize the other problem is just movie watching vs. book reading. More people will see the movie than read the book of almost any story, Harry Potter and Twilight maybe being the exceptions. But it just drives me crazy that MILLIONS of people will watch, and praise, films about Batman, Spiderman, Avengers .... yet if you read stories about those characters, you're a dork or a child.

[Btw, personally I do feel superhero team books, at least the ones I've read, do read pretty silly sometimes. And you always have the witty banter while they're fighting for their lives, but that's always in the films as well and that doesn't seem to bother those people.]

[torchsong]

It's something we just have to learn to deal with. I doubt that comics will ever gain acceptance as a "mature" form of reading (even though we all know better) by the mainstream public.

For my part, I simply try to be a good ambassador. I have a daily bus commute, and there's a comic in my hand pretty much every single morning and afternoon, so I know I'm "that comic book guy". Several people have approached me about it.

Why don't I read "real" books? Answer: I find a comic easier to put away when I'm at my stop than a novel, where if I'm at a certain point I won't want to stop reading. And who's to say comics aren't "real" books? I point out that many mainstream authors of real books (Joe Hill, Janet Evanovich, etc.) have written comics.

Aren't comics for kids? Answer: Well, they should be, primarily, but kids grow up, and it's good to see comics have grown up with them. You wouldn't want your child reading Dorohedoro, for example, but I find it to be as engrossing as any sci-fi book I've picked up. There's room for all ages to enjoy a comic, without shame.

Isn't that manga stuff just Japanese porn? Answer: Yes. Yes it is.

And that's all any of us can do, as comic book readers - be good ambassadors. Show that the stereotype is just that - a stereotype that doesn't encompass all of us.

- Don't wig out when someone makes an incorrect statement about your favorite character, and leap over chairs and knock people out of the way so you can "correct" them.

- Read your books in public. Never be ashamed or apologize when someone questions you about it. Show them why you love these funnybooks so much. Show them the artistry, and how looking at sequential art actually forces your brain to work on a higher level. Dig into the science of it with them.

- Be good to kids. Don't hoard all the books on FCBD. Let the kids get their mitts on them. Talk with them about your favorite characters. News Flash: Wolverine's still around and there's a whole generation of kids who are just discovering him.

- Revel in the fact that we're in an absolutely BEAUTIFUL age to be a comic book fan. Do you realize how many comic book movies are out? Coming out? And how GOOD they all are?!? It may not be the best time in the world to be a comic book publisher, but it's a hell of a great time to be a fanboy!

[BobBretall]

I think most people still think every comic has corny dialogue or panders to kids.

What's funny is that the closer comic movie dialogue & action gets to what's actually in the comics, the better the movies do.

The worst movies are ones where Hollywood people get their fingers all over the property & change stuff around for no good reason.

When you have a comic fan like Joss Whedon in the driver's seat look at what you get, a $200M opening weekend in the US & >$600M worldwide already.

[IanG]

Yes, it's frustrating but somewhat understandable. I've come to the conclusion that most people who watch these films probably don't even know that current Avengers comics books are still being published. I also think that movies like the Avengers is about as far as a lot of people want to take their love of superheroes. They aren't interested enough to take it to the next level of actually reading a comic book. Even if someone does happen to take the time to find a comic book store, they get presented with a big Avengers versus X-Men crossover, Ugh. They'll probably get very confused at to what to read unless you've got someone at the comic book store directing you.

[BobBretall]

Even if someone does happen to take the time to find a comic book store, they get presented with a big Avengers versus X-Men crossover, Ugh. They'll probably get very confused at to what to read unless you've got someone at the comic book store directing you.

Confusion aside, is Avengers vs. X-Men anywhere near as good (storytelling & dialogue) as the Avengers movie? I can't judge, I'm steering well clear of that entire event.

[BobBretall]

BTW, Here's some discussion of the "end-scene" directed at civilians (URL contains a spoiler):
EW On-line link

[spid]

Yes, it's frustrating but somewhat understandable. I've come to the conclusion that most people who watch these films probably don't even know that current Avengers comics books are still being published. I also think that movies like the Avengers is about as far as a lot of people want to take their love of superheroes. They aren't interested enough to take it to the next level of actually reading a comic book. Even if someone does happen to take the time to find a comic book store, they get presented with a big Avengers versus X-Men crossover, Ugh. They'll probably get very confused at to what to read unless you've got someone at the comic book store directing you.

I think a big fight crossover is a lot less confusing than standard comic book storyline. Most of the characters are known to the general public. They all have had major movies, cartoons, and toy lines dedicated to them in the last ten years.

[J. Farrell]

I like the Avengers movie a lot, but I would still say the movie was "childish" (as in flashy entertainment without much emotional or intellectual depth) and nerdy. It was basically two and a half hours of fan service (Hulk vs. Thor! Captain America blocks Mjolnir! And so on.) There was absolutely nothing in it that would change my mind about what comics contained; i.e. guys in tights and armored suits spouting one liners and beating the hell out of each other. I'm a big comics reader, also, but even having enjoyed the movie, I'm not a millimeter closer to picking up Avengers comics.

It's a totally different animal between watching a two and a half hour movie where there is sound and motion and plenty of stuff to keep short attention spans engaged (Scar-Jo, for one) and reading years worth of comics, many of which wouldn't be up to the same standards. My girlfriend, when I asked her if watching the movie gave her any inkling to read the comics said, "No, when it comes to these stories, I want something that takes the best of the hundreds of stories and distills it down to something fun to watch." And she's a pretty fervent comics reader. She's reading Mouse Guard right now, in fact.

[BobBretall]

My girlfriend, when I asked her if watching the movie gave her any inkling to read the comics said, "No, when it comes to these stories, I want something that takes the best of the hundreds of stories and distills it down to something fun to watch." And she's a pretty fervent comics reader. She's reading Mouse Guard right now, in fact.

I'd not expect someone who is not a fan of the super-hero genre in particular to be swayed into reading super-hero comics by a movie.

In general, I agree that a summer popcorn movie (any action movie, not just super-heroes) is not really going to compel people to want to cross-over into another medium for more of the same unless they had a predilection towards the genre in the first place.

Of your girlfriends fervent comics reading, what (if any) "big 2" super-hero comics are among them?

Also, I don't think mindless action entertainment is necessarily "childish", but that's a whole different debate. You may as well say enjoying watching or playing action packed sports are "childish".

[J. Farrell]

Of your girlfriends fervent comics reading, what (if any) "big 2" super-hero comics are among them?

None, but that's kind of the point. She was excited about seeing superheroes in a movie, but had and has no interest in reading comics about them.

Also, I don't think mindless action entertainment is necessarily "childish", but that's a whole different debate. You may as well say enjoying watching or playing action packed sports are "childish".

I was borrowing the word "childish" and trying to adapt it for my uses, but obviously I failed. I don't mean it as "only for kids," but rather as a reflection of the depth and maturity of the work. The Avengers movie is a well done, fun example of CGI laden superheroics with some good character interaction, but doesn't have any ambitions beyond that. And that's fine, but the idea that watching it would make anyone think "wow, I didn't know comics had THAT to offer!" seems unlikely. I think most people think that's exactly what comics have to offer.

[abysslord]

I was borrowing the word "childish" and trying to adapt it for my uses, but obviously I failed. I don't mean it as "only for kids," but rather as a reflection of the depth and maturity of the work. The Avengers movie is a well done, fun example of CGI laden superheroics with some good character interaction, but doesn't have any ambitions beyond that. And that's fine, but the idea that watching it would make anyone think "wow, I didn't know comics had THAT to offer!" seems unlikely. I think most people think that's exactly what comics have to offer.

I agree, but my point is that people have no problem seeing the film even if they think it's childish, but seem to ridicule people for reading the same story. Then again, that seems to be something deep within our culture that reading is for "nerds".

[BobBretall]

The Avengers movie is a well done, fun example of CGI laden superheroics with some good character interaction, but doesn't have any ambitions beyond that. And that's fine, but the idea that watching it would make anyone think "wow, I didn't know comics had THAT to offer!" seems unlikely. I think most people think that's exactly what comics have to offer.

People would be exactly right in thinking that's what Marvel super-hero comics have to offer, as a best case.

You can't judge comics as a medium based solely on Marvel super-hero comics (even though people do), just like you can't just movies as a medium based solely on Die Hard (to pluck another mindless action film out of the air) when there are movies like My Dinner With Andre.

I was borrowing the word "childish" and trying to adapt it for my uses, but obviously I failed. I don't mean it as "only for kids," but rather as a reflection of the depth and maturity of the work.

I was not reading it as "only for kids", I was reading it as a pejorative, exactly as you meant it.

My point was that you can use similar pejorative terms for other pursuits that don't measure up to some lofty intellectual measure, which I don't think is fair. There's nothing wrong with superficial fun entertainment that delivers exactly what it was created to. Things don't need to be deep and mature to be of value.

[J. Farrell]

You can't judge comics as a medium based solely on Marvel super-hero comics (even though people do), just like you can't just movies as a medium based solely on Die Hard (to pluck another mindless action film out of the air) when there are movies like My Dinner With Andre.

You don't know me, Bob, but if you spent five seconds looking at my bookshelves you'd know I'm not a person who needs to be told that.

It's one thing to watch a movie for two hours, and quite another to motivate people to pay $3 or $4 a pop for a comic that would probably take about two years to relate the same events from said movie. The movie is easy, casual, cheap and social. And it's not, as fun as it is, something that is going to get anybody thinking twice about what they thought comics were about.

[J. Farrell]

I was not reading it as "only for kids", I was reading it as a pejorative, exactly as you meant it.

Don't tell me what I meant. I'm 40 years old, and I like comics, and I liked the Avengers. I don't think I'm a child with childish interests, so why would I accuse others of that for the same behavior? I used the word because the original poster did, the same way he used "nerdy." I don't generalize based on artforms (like animation) or subject matter (like superheroes.) I do, however, think the The Avengers aspired to be nothing more than a whiz bang fight fest, which WHILE FINE, is not going to change the stigma that comics have as entertainment for children.

[BobBretall]

I was not reading it as "only for kids", I was reading it as a pejorative, exactly as you meant it.

Don't tell me what I meant.

Sorry. If "lack of depth & maturity" is not a negative statement in your mind I'll take your word for it. My mistake.

In MY mind, as the reader of your comment, it definitely was a negative.

One of the problems of language (especially on the internet). Things are not always read with the same intent they were written.