DC Comics, Where Are All The Women?

[GABE!]

Here is an interview with a Woman that was dressed up as Stephanie Brown Batgirl at San Diego, and was going to the DC New 52 panels asking about the change in the amount of Women characters, and creators, after the new reboot/relaunch.

http://dcwomenkickingass.tumblr.com/pos ... cinterview

Pretty interesting to hear about her experience during the con and seemly being brushed off by Dan DiDio, Jim Lee, and Boo'ed by the audience.

It almost seems like she may have took her simple question too far, and was hounding the panelist with the same question at each panel expecting to get the answer she wanted.

[BobBretall]

It almost seems like she may have took her simple question too far, and was hounding the panelist with the same question at each panel expecting to get the answer she wanted.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Going to every DC panel & asking the same question falls into the definition of "hounding", I'd say.

In the interview she describes Didio as "actively hostile" to her questions. I'm guessing when you're trying to promote the line -wide relaunch at a VERY public event, getting hounded with the same question time & again would tend to put you a bit on edge.

Asking that question, repeatedly, in a public forum, whilst dressed up in a costume is probably not the most effective way to get a positive result.

Super-hero comics have a predominantly male audience, and not just because it has mostly male heroes. I think the power-fantasy of super-heroes appeals more to males than to females. If DC did a lot of female characters played totally straight (e.g. not cheesecake-y) would women beat a path to their door & buy a lot of those comics? I'm guessing not.

I think DC will be better off using the Vertigo line to do comics that appeal to women. Keep the women on the mainstream titles well-done, but having them be half the characters is kind of ridiculous from a business sense.

[GABE!]

In the interview she describes Didio as "actively hostile" to her questions. I'm guessing when you're trying to promote the line -wide relaunch at a VERY public event, getting hounded with the same question time & again would tend to put you a bit on edge.

Asking that question, repeatedly, in a public forum, whilst dressed up in a costume is probably not the most effective way to get a positive result.

Also the interview made the audience during the panels out to be "jerks" by booing and yelling at her to sit down. I do not think for a second that the audience was booing her asking a question. But rather wanting her to stop wasting everyone's time by asking questions over and over.

[BadDeacon]

I'm trying not to be snarky about a response to this, but I was at one of the panels where she asked about this, and she was pretty antagonistic.

Didio's first response was that DC is committed to hiring the best writers and artist. It was pretty straight forward, and gave a response. She continued to badger with the question of whether DC is committed to hiring more women, and just wouldn't take anything except "yes" or "no" for an answer.

I don't want to read comics made by a company that hires women just because they are women. I want to read good comics. If women make them, or men make them, I don't really care, as long as I enjoy them.

When you ask, "well, which women working as comics professionals should DC hire?" there aren't many answers. In fact, they have kind of hired them all already.

[Paul Nolan]

from the DC Source blog

Over the past week we’ve heard from fans about a need for more women writers, artists and characters. We want you to know, first and foremost, that we hear you and take your concerns very seriously.

We’ve been very fortunate in recent years to have fan favorite creators like Gail Simone, Amy Reeder, Felicia Henderson, Fiona Staples, Amanda Connor, G. Willow Wilson and Nicola Scott write and draw the adventures of the World’s Greatest Super Heroes.

DC Comics is the home of a pantheon of remarkable, iconic women characters like Wonder Woman, Lois Lane, Batgirl, Batwoman, Catwoman and Supergirl as well as fan favorite characters like Black Canary, Katana, Mera and Starfire. We’re committed to telling diverse stories with a diverse point of view. We want these adventures to resonate in the real world, reflecting the experiences of our diverse readership. Can we improve on that? We always can—and aim to.

We’ll have exciting news about new projects with women creators in the coming months and will be making those announcements closer to publication. Many of the above creators will be working on new projects, as we continue to tell the ongoing adventures of our characters. We know there are dozens of other women creators and we welcome the opportunity to work with them.

Our recent announcements have generated much attention and discussion and we welcome that dialogue.

Best-

Jim Lee & Dan DiDio
DC Entertainment Co-Publishers

[BobBretall]

Pretty classy to respond like that......

To Sean's point above, DC has a fair amount of female creators, how many are floating around out there that they don't have? They are not going to go hiring untested women creators "off the street" any more than they hire unknown/untested men.

Fiona Staples is off the market for DC for the foreseeable future now, doing "Saga" with Brian K Vaughn over @ Image. Thing with artists is it's harder for them to work multiple projects.

[Paul Nolan]

Fiona Staples is off the market for DC for the foreseeable future now, doing "Saga" with Brian K Vaughn over @ Image. Thing with artists is it's harder for them to work multiple projects.

Hopefully she can still providesome covers, like the awesome ones currently adorning THUNDER Agents.

[TNPredsFan]

[quote="BobBretall"
Super-hero comics have a predominantly male audience, and not just because it has mostly male heroes. I think the power-fantasy of super-heroes appeals more to males than to females. If DC did a lot of female characters played totally straight (e.g. not cheesecake-y) would women beat a path to their door & buy a lot of those comics? I'm guessing not.

I think DC will be better off using the Vertigo line to do comics that appeal to women. Keep the women on the mainstream titles well-done, but having them be half the characters is kind of ridiculous from a business sense.[/quote]

Power fantasies are just as powerful a draw for women as men. Look at the success of Buffy, Aliens, Star Wars, Harry Potter, etc. These franchises were wildly successful because they appealed to both sexes. All of these franchises featured strong, multi-faceted female characters. Hell, look at the old photos of little girls reading Golden Age Wonder Woman comics. Kids - boys and girls - used to read comics in vast numbers.

I went to see "Captain America" last Friday with Lin, and the audience was 50/50. Same with "Thor".

I can't tell you how many times I've been stopped in Wal-Mart or the grocery story or somewhere else that has nothing to do with comics while I was wearing a Wonder Woman or Batgirl t-shirt or cap by women wanting to know where I got my shirt or hat. They shared how much they loved the Lynda Carter WW show or the Justice League Animated show or Batman: The Animated Series.

The potential is there if a publisher was brave enough to take a chance. That doesn't mean half your books must star a woman or have female creators. Just act like you give a damn that you have customers who just so happen to be women.

[BobBretall]

Power fantasies are just as powerful a draw for women as men. Look at the success of Buffy, Aliens, Star Wars, Harry Potter, etc. These franchises were wildly successful because they appealed to both sexes. All of these franchises featured strong, multi-faceted female characters. Hell, look at the old photos of little girls reading Golden Age Wonder Woman comics. Kids - boys and girls - used to read comics in vast numbers.

I went to see "Captain America" last Friday with Lin, and the audience was 50/50. Same with "Thor".

I can't tell you how many times I've been stopped in Wal-Mart or the grocery story or somewhere else that has nothing to do with comics while I was wearing a Wonder Woman or Batgirl t-shirt or cap by women wanting to know where I got my shirt or hat. They shared how much they loved the Lynda Carter WW show or the Justice League Animated show or Batman: The Animated Series.

The potential is there if a publisher was brave enough to take a chance. That doesn't mean half your books must star a woman or have female creators. Just act like you give a damn that you have customers who just so happen to be women.

So what, specifically, do you think publishers have to do to super-hero comics that they are not doing now that would get more female readers to give a darn? You named lots of things female readers are into that are NOT comics: "Buffy, Aliens, Star Wars, Harry Potter"

It can't JUST be strong female characters, as there are a decent # of strong female characters in comics that don't have strong readerships. Maybe it's that the female readers never see/try the comics with the strong female characters.

I see lots of females at Comic Con, but mostly not looking at comics. I rarely see female customers in comics shops.

[TNPredsFan]

Access to the product is a big factor. You can't try what you don't see or know about.

I have long argued that comics must go beyond the Direct Market to expand. I just don't see how you can grow the industry with the bulk of your periodicals sold in 2,000 specialty shops that are heavily concentrated in cities like NY, LA, Chicago, etc. Hell, I can't get my 12-year old nephew into reading comics because the nearest comic shop is 1 1/2 hours away from him.

I read comics like Archie, GI Joe, etc as a kid because they were readily available at the corner grocery store at a price my 7-year old allowance could afford. Digital comics has the potential to be this generation's spinner rack for everyone, including women.

You will never get some women to go into a comics shop, even if one is nearby. There are plenty of horror stories of female customers being treated rudely/ignored to being sexually harassed. I never would have given my LCS a try if my best friend (and fellow fangirl) hadn't assured me that the owner and staff were friendly and welcoming. At that point, I had been regularly reading trades for over a year without ever stepping foot in a comics shop. The bad experiences I have had in comics shops have thankfully had nothing to do with my gender. They were simply bad shops with crappy customer service.

All of the franchises I mentioned, except Harry Potter, are currently published or have been published in comic form. Granted, none of them began as comics, but I mentioned them specifically because there is a comics connection. They became popular because a.) they are good stories, b.) people read / saw them and evangelized their friends and c.) they were easy to find and consume when the evangelists got their friends interested in them. The small town in Mississippi that my nephew lives in doesn't have a comic shop, but it has a movie theater showing Captain America and Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 2. He can go to the Wal-Mart in town and buy a Harry Potter book.

The other thing publishers could do (but won't) is tone down the cheesecake, especially on the covers. Why in the hell, as a woman, should I check out a issue of Green Lantern that has Carol Ferris barely covered in her Star Sapphire costume in chains at the feet of some dude? Yeah, Leia was in chains in Return of the Jedi, but that image wasn't used as the predominant image on the damn movie poster, either. I love well-done cheesecake of men and women, but cheesecake can go wrong very quickly in the hands of the wrong artist.

Another thing the publishers could do is simply stop and think about how things can appear or can be perceived sometimes. Let's take the relaunch and the Bat-books. All 4 male Robins - Dick, Jason, Tim and Damien - either have their own book or are prominently featured in a relaunch book. You have 3 Batgirls (and a fem Robin) - Babs, Cass and Stephanie. Only Barbara is currently in the relaunch. There may be plans for Cass and Steph, but again, I'm talking only about how this appears to female fans like me. All of the male Robins are important, but the Batgirls aren't. Plus, Barbara is being de-aged. (I'm not even going to touch the issues surrounding Babs and the wheelchair. That's a different can of worms.) To our knowledge, none of the Robins are being similarly de-aged.

It doesn't mean that they shouldn't proceed as planned, but be prepared to handle the fallout in a tactful, respectful manner.

Kyrax2, the SDCC Batgirl, didn't say anything that I haven't seen scores of people saying online since the relaunch blitz began or that I haven't thought myself, but it appears to have caught DC completely off-guard at SDCC. Someone at DC should have been monitoring what is being said on Facebook, Twitter, and prominent blogs. They compounded the error by not reacting well, and they don't have a good track record in this regard. I've spent too many years in customer service and corporate America, and it has been drilled into my head since I was 16 that is doesn't matter how rude or belligerent a customer is. It doesn't matter how many times the same question is asked. It is my job to answer the question as many times as it is asked and to act in a professional manner. I don't have the luxury of showing frustration or anger in front of my customers.

[comicm]

I listened to all of the DC Podcasting Panels and "Batgirl" is the one that seemed hostile to me and not the panelists. I found her really annoying and unprofessional.

I think they should have simply stated that if the market "sales" demand more lead female characters on titles then we will add more female titles to the lineup. As far as woman writing in comics the questions should have been asked about how many woman have proposed work for DC but were denied. I am pretty sure there are going to be a lot less women applying for writing Super-heroes then men. I would hope DC would treat each proposal equally.

Listen to the panels and see what you think. I think they presented themselves very well against the hostile "Batgirl"

[torchsong]

Meanwhile the manga community shakes its collective head and wonders what all the fuss is about.

Someone should give "Batgirl" a copy of Dorohedoro or Love*Com or Afterschool Charisma...

You want women creators? They're out there, and they're putting out some kick-(bleep) work. Some of the best stuff I've read in years. They're just not at DC.

And if you really want to send DC the message that you want women writers? Stop buying their books until they hire some.

[TNPredsFan]

Sue (aka dcwomenkickingass on Tumblr) has done a series of posts in the past with proposals to attract more female readers:

Comics for Soliders - http://dcwomenkickingass.tumblr.com/pos ... orsoldiers

Onramp: Batgirl - http://dcwomenkickingass.tumblr.com/pos ... rampbatgir

Girl Scouts - http://dcwomenkickingass.tumblr.com/pos ... irl-scouts

General Suggestions - http://dcwomenkickingass.tumblr.com/pos ... alereaders

You want women creators? They're out there, and they're putting out some kick-(bleep) work. Some of the best stuff I've read in years. They're just not at DC.

And if you really want to send DC the message that you want women writers? Stop buying their books until they hire some.

The problem with voting with your pocketbook is this: is the publisher getting the message you, as a customer, are trying to deliver? Do they get the message that readers want female creators, or do they decide that there isn't enough interest in Character X to support a book? Do they have the proper context for the sales numbers?

I agree that not all talented creators WANT to work at DC or Marvel. Many do not want to write superheroes. I don't want a quota system where you must have a certain ratio of books by gender or a certain number of books must have 2.3 women.

What I don't see at DC is the attempt to find new talent - regardless of gender. DC doesn't have their equivalent of CB Cebulski traveling the globe for talent. Marvel has managed to increase their female creator ranks over the past several months. Off the top of my head, Marvel has Marjorie Liu, Kathryn Immonen, Laura Martin, Betty Breitweiser, & Kelly Sue DeConnick. It can be done.

[BobBretall]

What I don't see at DC is the attempt to find new talent - regardless of gender.

This seems to be true...... Marvel does a much better job at gobbling up talent from the Indie ranks.

[torchsong]

The problem with voting with your pocketbook is this: is the publisher getting the message you, as a customer, are trying to deliver? Do they get the message that readers want female creators, or do they decide that there isn't enough interest in Character X to support a book? Do they have the proper context for the sales numbers?

Well, there's several ways to approach it: Pull a Lysistrata and don't buy ANY DC books until they start taking the concept to heart. That'll hurt them, sure, but you're also denying yourself some potentially great reads. And, as you say, they don't know when a woman buys a book any more than they do a man.

Or possibly organize and when DC puts a female creator to work, you buy that book en masse. Show them the market exists, and they're likely to try to meet it...and not in some half-arsed way like their attempt with Minx comics a few years back. Remember those? "HEY GIRLS! WE MADE COMIC BOOKS JUST FOR YOU!!!" Yeesh...

What I don't want to see, like you mention, is DC hiring female creators solely because they're female, and talent be damned. Too many genuinely talented people out there, some with a Y chromosome, some with an X, and the books are too darned expensive these days to let a quota determine what goes up there.